Welcome to the Fest
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

2013-05-04: Zero Dark Liberty
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> Sinfest
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message

Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1815

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:
Rune wrote:
Rothide wrote:
Yinello wrote:
In the absolute simplest context she would say: "Your porn makes me feel bad." And that should be more than enough for Sam to AT LEAST reconsider what he's doing. But he's not. So he's a jerk and she should dump him.

What if he went "Well I'm doing this because your not having sex with me and it's making me feel bad".

Sigh, that's most likely somehow different... expecting a rebuttal, and please forgive my ignorance.

Here's a fun game, how about you think about how the two might be different and post the rebuttal, yourself?

I guess that's because he wants her to do something with her body, while she just wants him to give up something he likes, but she is against.

So I guess if he loved her he should give up everything he likes to do if she is against it. Would she have to do the same though?

Getting warmer.

It's not just things he likes that she's opposed to. It's actual acted-upon habits that exploit other people. It's been pretty consistently that.

Your supposed Sam quote would not be true, either. He does -not- do those things because she's not putting out. We saw one single strip where she said she was too tired for anything that one night, he acted all kinds of entitled, (because he's a big deal! Big deals get sex when and wherever they want it, right?) and when that argument didn't fly he got all pissy and acted out. That wasn't even the beginning of Sam's bad behavior, but the only instance that these, "but she's withholding sex!" arguments could possibly find even shaky ground in. (And that's a bogus argument anyway. No woman owes a man sex, not even if he's her husband, in order to prevent him from acting out and behaving badly. That's a whiny-boy excuse, not a legit "because.")

You also have to think, what is Liberty already compromising? She's staying and trying to work things out, even though Sam has outright cheated on her. She's already lost the Sam she used to know and the health of her marriage, but she's still -trying-. He has GOT to do his part.

That's not even a full breakdown, but it's time to deposit the kidlets with their grandmother and get out of the house. (HALLELUJA)

Keep thinking, though. In all seriousness, if you've posited a point that you think is going to draw rebuttal, it's an excellent rhetorical, writing, and thinking strategy to try to figure out what that rebuttal is, yourself. Then you can refine your point, your argument, and your thinking on the matter.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 4741
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide, let go of this notion that SHE WANTS HIM TO STOP DOING THINGS HE WANTS TO DO AND THAT'S JUST NOT FAIR TO ASK SOMEONE TO STOP DOING THINGS THEY WANT TO DO. When you talk about it, you only engage with the aspect, "He wants to do something he likes" and not with the aspect "The thing he wants is consuming him, and he both brushes off her concerns about it and continually tries to involve her in it despite how horrible she finds it." He won't stop fucking asking, even having heard how she feels.

Let's look at this illustration together:

Liberty: Gee, Sam, you like watching women get raped.
Sam: Yup, I love it.

Liberty: Gee, Sam, you like seeing poor, oppressed women serving for your sexual pleasure.
Sam: Haha, you know me so well.

Liberty: Gee, Sam, you watch a crapload of porn.
Sam: I do indeed, good hobby,

Liberty: Gee, Sam, you seem to be having or attempting to have affairs with other women.
Sam: Yup. You don't mind, do you, honey? You're so frigid.

Liberty: Gee, Sam, you seem to be unable to maintain the boundaries between the fantasy of porn and real life.
Sam: But it is real life! It's all artsy documentaries about life!

(Didja notice he was using porn to figure out what women want? And he said this casually to Liberty as a self-evident thing? Like she should of course know this and believe it too?)

Liberty: Gee, Sam, you appear to have not noticed at all that I am not at all like the pornographic portrayals of women.
Sam: Aw, you're just pretending - like they do during the foreplay scenarios. If I do the right moves, your clothes will melt off and then I can exploit and conquer you like people do in the porn I like. Like I do to prostitutes (And possibly random women who aren't getting compensated at all for it - but you can just wonder about that.)
::lesser crisis mode::

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 1853

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some attitudes are just unhealthy, so "just doing what I want" is not a good excuse.

If your romantic partner drank 1.5 litres of wine every night and you tell them to stop, do you think that a logical part of that conversation is "You have to give me something in return?"

For Sam... For this relationship, the porn that Sam's getting obsessed with is unhealthy. Some things have to stop, and there's no bargaining there.
Welcome to Sinfest, the only place with a 46 pages long thread about sentient toasters

Now featuring around 40 pages about non-sentient toasters
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 4741
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's takea detailed look at the dialogue of ths strip.

L: Sammy, you're watching torture porn!
S: Enhanced interrogation porn!

Enhanced Interrogation is a euphemism people use to put the reality of torture at a distance. Sam can't even admit that what he is watching is torture.

S: I'm looking for clues!
L: Clues to what??
S: What women really want

First, it is bizarre how he announced he is looking for clues. It would be out of place in most conversations when most people might say it, but Sam has a history with jealousy and spying. He cheats on Liberty while accusing Liberty of cheating on him. His hold on reality appears tenuous, and that is dangerous for Liberty.

Second, rather than listen to the live woman he is married to for advice on what women want, he is ignoring her and instead trying to decrypt an unrealistic fantasy. She has told him several times that she doesn't want the things he sees in porn. He appears to have behaved defensively and ignored her, rather than ask, "Well, what do you want?"

Slap smack whip
Porn voice 1:
You like that? huh? Do ya??
Porn voice 2: Yes! Yes! I love it!
S: Hmm..

The woman on-screen says, "I want you to." The devil women representing countries he could exploit also said, "We want you to." The women in the porn he watches and the women he pays to have sex with are doing a job, either for money or because they have no choice. They are presenting a fantasy. He is deciding this fantasy is true, despite the constant presence in his life of a woman who says, "No, I don't want you to."

What could be a reason for his continuing to look for clues when he has been told? Could it be he thinks Liberty is lying? Or that she is confused? Maybe that she is broken - because apparently 'real women' want what porn characters want - so therefore Liberty is either not a real woman, or is broken.

Then again, there are all those 'sexual awakening' scenes in porn where a woman insists she doesn't want whatever the male character(s) want. Somewhere during rape, she discovers, "Oh, my, I do enjoy this!" And then sexy romping times happen, and the man conquers the woman. That could be it!

In any case, Sam spies on Liberty already. He is vengeful. He has access to lots of weapons. Where could she go in Sinfest land that he wouldn't be able to find her? Are there safe houses, and are those safe houses really safe? Does she know what the Sisterhood is, and would she be able to contact them if she needed help?
::lesser crisis mode::

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 2126
Location: Somewhere else.

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:
Yinello wrote:
Can we keep in mind Sam is looking at torture PORN and not at torturing someone for the so-called wellbeing of others.

He's metaphorically justifying torture.

Apropos of nothing, at first I thought this said "metaphysically" and began to wonder exactly how he would do that.
mouse wrote:
almost a shame to waste dennis' talent on him.
except it's always a pleasure to see a good dennis insult.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> Sinfest All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
Page 9 of 9

Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group