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Wonder Woman petition on Change.org!
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ChastMastr



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 473
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida, US

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 4:46 am    Post subject: Wonder Woman petition on Change.org! Reply with quote

Hi all! It's been a while...

Was poking around the forums (fora? Foraminifera?) again and while reading all of the feminist issues--as well as other relevant issues regarding politics and the like--it occurred to me that it might behoove me to let you all know about a petition on Change.org regarding Wonder Woman.

I don't know how many people are regular super-hero comics readers, or used to be, but DC has changed the character in a lot of ways that some of us find, well, bad, and many people have complained that she's been moved away from both her feminist roots and also from her previous peace-focused mission statement. As it were.

If you'd like to check it out, I hope it is OK to post the link here:

https://www.change.org/petitions/warner-brothers-dc-comics-restore-the-classic-wonder-woman-character-and-her-mission-of-peace
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3448
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure both fora and forums are correct, but most people use forums.

Sad I don't keep up with comics like I should, and I am sad they changed Wonder Woman this way. I hope the petition has some success, though I don't know if DC will listen.
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fritterdonut



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
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Location: Hedonism

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad to see ChastMastr back. Pretty sure some other forum members were missing you too.
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chast yay! And you bring us an interesting petition as a welcoming gift. Very Happy
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Mindslicer



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are we talking about the same Wonder Woman whose powers originally became useless when she would get tied up by a man? Or did her 'feminist roots' come after that?

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CTrees



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 3772

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read the petition. The term "feminist" is mentioned only once (in the opening paragraph), which is likely good. As Mindslicer points out, her Golden Age presentation... isn't exactly the best feminist example.



She was definitely a feminist icon later, and I think the petition is well done, there. Most of the thrust seems to be that she's become too aggressive (as an aside, I don't follow DC's New 52, but from that writeup it seems like they moved things closer to the actual Greek myths?). While this could be a legitimate complaint, I don't necessarily see the move as being anti-feminist. Look at the push for women in the military to be allowed into combat roles - certainly an aversion to violence is not a virtue in that effort.

As to the more general "Wonder Woman is a peaceful superhero," my perception of her is largely formed from her various animated presentations, primarily 2001 and on (Justice League television series). Perhaps she was a gentle, peace-loving hero in the Lynda Carter days (again, Golden Age is inherently problematic for her), but in the past decade I've mostly seen her be slightly less aggressive than Wolverine, without even looking at the New 52.

Is her current, print-comic presentation truly non-feminist?
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay except guys she was created in the 40's. The fact that she existed at all in that time period was kind of a huge fucking deal.

If you don't think the first steps towards feminism included representation of women at all ever then you just don't understand how far we've come.

Before Wonder Woman women didn't -get- to be super heroes. She is, at her very core, a feminist icon.
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TIAB



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The point is that all of the progress made with her character, as a feminist icon even, has been discarded with the release of the New 52. A similar treatment has been given to the character Starfire who has been reduced to slutty eye-candy.
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CTrees



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's actually a good point. Her more sexually-submissive aspects get roundly mocked now, as do her various jobs, but you're right - the fact she existed at all is impressive. The Comics Code Authority certainly didn't help her move past her 1940's origins, either...

That said, I'm honestly curious - in what ways is the New 52 Wonder Woman anti-feminist? I've heard complaints about the regressive changes in characterization of heroines like Starfire and Batwoman, but the complaints I've seen about Wonder Woman's new treatment have been more on the "they changed her backstory now it sucks" (they changed everyone's backstories, now they all suck) and "her boots are ugly." Far less glaring than the "they changed a previously strong, interesting female hero into a mindless pair of tits primarily concerned with sleeping her way through her entire team." This is what's filtered through my "I haven't cared that much about DC comics in a long time" level of interest, though. Which is why I'm asking.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

God, don't even get me started on Starfire. Thinking about it just makes me want to set things on fire.

But yeah, Wonder Woman grew with the feminist movement. Eventually Gail Simone got her hands on her and daaaamn it was a thing of beauty.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CTrees: I think someone that has actually read the new 52 and not just stared at it distrustfully and occasionally raged at the stuff on the 'net should probably answer that. Odds are pretty high it's outlined on the actual petition's mission statement page, though.

Here's a good enough explanation as any why Starfire's changes make me really angry.
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fritterdonut



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I can tell from reading forum posts and articles on the topic, it appears the main changes that were made were to Wonder Woman's backstory. Her original story involved her being made from mud by the Queen of the Amazons, making her an Amazonian princess, who then left the island after a US airman crashed on it.

Her new backstory is that the clay story was a coverup, and Wonder Woman is actually the result of an affair between Zeus and the Queen of the Amazons, making WW a half-god of sorts.

As far as the argument that she's more bloodthirsty now, I'd say if anything it would be more sexist to turn her back into a peace-lover. Most of the DC lineup, at some point or another, have had "grittier" versions that used more violence than usual. Even superman, who I'd argue was the original "turn them over to the authorities" kind of superhero, executed a couple people, and IIRC punched through the Joker's chest barehanded, blood splatter and all, in one issue. To force her into a non-violence roll just seems more typical of the sexist idea that women can't handle violence, or are weak.

However, I'm far from an expert on comics. The only ones I ever read from the original DC lineup was Spiderman and Superman. Then I moved into slightly more adult comics, like The Watchmen and Spider Jerusalem.
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CalmBlueSea



Joined: 12 Apr 2013
Posts: 145
Location: Massachusetts

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

God, dammit, comic authors, what the ever-loving fuck are you doing? Haven't you all been doing this long enough to know how to write a woman that can both enjoy sex and NOT be a male-gaze pandering cardboard cutout?

fritterdonut wrote:
Spider Jerusalem


Hell yeah, Transmetropolitan. Just started re-re-re-reading it yesterday. When are we getting a TV show/ movie/ miniseries?
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they make a Transmetropolitan anything, I hope it is accompanied by a themed MakerBot.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fritterdonut wrote:
To force her into a non-violence roll just seems more typical of the sexist idea that women can't handle violence, or are weak.


*deep breath*

You do not have to be violent to be strong.

For the love of god, you have missed everything that was awesome about her. What made her great was that she COULD kick ass but didn't. At least.. not if she didn't have to. If she had to, boy you better watch out.

Just to stress the real point here though, you do not have to be violent to be strong.
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