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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1055

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide, you want to learn here the same way my mom "just wants to understand," gay people. That is, you're looking for specific points that you can attack, cherry-pick, or latch onto in order to shore up the walls of your own limited little couch-fort of a worldview, and pretend that you've contended with some of the Big Questions and emerged victorious, without having to actually change a damn thing about the way you operate.

You are a small man with a small mind borrowing other people's words in order to try and sound big, and you're too clueless about the world to even be able to hear how tinny and bereft your conceptual offerings fall on aware ears.

You are a being made of excuses who is looking for more, and who will only slink back to your couch when you've run out by being refuted back again and again and again, or you get called out so thoroughly that all the fuel you burn just to survive backfires and burns out, leaving nothing but incoherent indignation and butt-hurtitude in its wake.

You might be worth talking to when there is more to you than excuses.

It's your job to make that happen. Seriously, go put some time in with Habitat for Humanity or something. Get away from yourself. You're choking on your own fumes.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3448
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
Rothide, you want to learn here the same way my mom "just wants to understand," gay people.


Ah, i do love parents like that. They are not even a full step above parents who hate their queer children - because they do so much damage while they think they are being open minded.

Rune wrote:

You might be worth talking to when there is more to you than excuses.


I for one would enjoy discussing differences in our backgrounds. As someone who is new to the ideas being discussed here, your opinion would be interesting and useful to hear - precisely because you aren't a feminist. But not when you're being a butthead.

Rune wrote:

It's your job to make that happen. Seriously, go put some time in with Habitat for Humanity or something. Get away from yourself. You're choking on your own fumes.


Indeed.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1055

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
Rune wrote:
Rothide, you want to learn here the same way my mom "just wants to understand," gay people.


Ah, i do love parents like that. They are not even a full step above parents who hate their queer children - because they do so much damage while they think they are being open minded.


Yeah, it's rough. Though, to give my mom -some- credit, she usually does err on the side of kindness and reason when a) there is an undeniable preponderance of evidence right in front of her, or b) there is a real, live, hurting person right in front of her. It's work pushing her to the point where she sees that sometimes, though -_-;
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pun



Joined: 30 Mar 2013
Posts: 35
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

as someone with aspergers themselves, i do not enjoy seeing it used as an insult.
there are many terms that can be used to describe asshats without diagnosing them with, and thereby demonizing, mental disorders.
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
Rothide, you weren't trying to learn, because people were handing you information on a silver platter and you were just tossing up bullshit you felt like rather than engaging the information which you were given.

No one here is obligated to fix you. Go read whatever books you've got. You can whine all you like, but you have been given information and behaved poorly in exchange.

You're still approaching it all wrong, because you're saying, "I get yelled at if I don't conform! Feminists are all a hivemind!" And that is bullshit.

Have you seen me and Leohan argue? Leohan is much better at this than you are. (Other people can disagree with that.). Why?
1. When given information that disagrees with what he thinks, he talks about that information versus what he knows, rather than complaining about feminism.
2. His first inclination does not appear to be to shout about how people are being mean to him, and that feminism is this cultish thing that people have to be sucked into to understand.
3. He has a coherent line of argument that can be followed for the most part, so people can properly disagree with him or agree with him.
4. He checks in with people to see if they are okay, thereby displaying empathy and an understanding that he is arguing with people, rather than a hegemonious block known as OMG FEMINISTS.
5. He understands there are different ways to do feminism.
6. He backs up claims which are extraordinary.
7. He doesn shout at every opportunity that no one lets him speak his mind, and that feminists are unreasonable.


Well lets see the quote that started the whole meltdown.

"My college had a bunch of books on feminism left over from the 70s. One was all about teaching your wife to pretend to play the stock market so that, if you die, she understands money is not a toy before frittering it away and becoming an impoverished widow.

Another more memorable book was about rape, and was written by a sympathetic man. His first doozy was that you should do your best not to give off appearances that you like to sleep around (For instance, going out with one person, then deciding to go out with a different one.). This will confuse the mens, you see, who need to study your behavior stalker-like from afar rather than ask you if you want to have sex with them.

The second doozy was that if you find yourself being raped, try to lie back and enjoy it, since you can't go anywhere else anyway."

I argued "No duh they thought that way, it was the 70's, thats how everyone thought, no need to be angry about idiots in the past thinking the way idiots in the past thought" I thought that the majority of the problems there were being solved, considering we now have laws condemning these practices. If anyone argued that these laws should be repealed I'd stand against them, everyone should have these rights.

Though to tell you the truth, the last part of your second post I think pissed me off. You expect men to be 'ahem' a MAN enough to ask you out the minute we find you attractive. Apparantly anyone who has low self esteem or want's to first study your habits and see if you have anything in common, (or to surprise and impress you ), to you, are stalkers.

THough I will admit my low self esteem didn't want to get any lower so I just argued that the past is the past, we shouldn't dwell on it when things are generally improving in those areas. WE don't have dwell on every sin man has done to be able to learn from it, and we don't have to act that having uneducated ideas back before we became educated isn't a sin. Do you think back and chide your past self for believing an untrue idea back before you knew they were untrue?
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1055

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pun wrote:
as someone with aspergers themselves, i do not enjoy seeing it used as an insult.
there are many terms that can be used to describe asshats without diagnosing them with, and thereby demonizing, mental disorders.


I did bring up the possibility that -some- of Roth's behaviors might stem from that. I also contended very strongly that, above and aside from that, he was still being straight-up an ass-hat, and while I have sympathy for the extra difficulties that such disorders can cause someone socially, you're right, it's not in and of itself a bad thing, and does not make them bad people. I'm sincerely sorry if anything I've said contributed to the impression of demonization. I do not feel that way at all.

But Roth is using things like that and ADHD as "woe-me," excuses for his above-and-aside ass-hattishness, like it actaully absolves him of the burden of being a half-decent human being.

It's his crap attitude that's painting such disorders as making those who have them hopeless cases who we can't reasonably expect decent behavior from.
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Jody



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And Rothide is still making it all about himself, despite there being other forums for just this sort of thing.

What a surprise.

Tho I'd like to apologize for using Asperger's in a derogatory fashion. I know a few folks that have it myself. It was out of line.
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Tekii



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 210

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:
Though to tell you the truth, the last part of your second post I think pissed me off. You expect men to be 'ahem' a MAN enough to ask you out the minute we find you attractive. Apparantly anyone who has low self esteem or want's to first study your habits and see if you have anything in common, (or to surprise and impress you ), to you, are stalkers.


What actions are involved in studying someone's habits or trying to surprise and impress them?
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1113

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripey: Thanks for the compliment! ^^ I really enjoy our discussions, and they have indeed been helping me with my empathy issues.

Rune: Your eloquence in telling Rothide off has been extraordinary. Congratulations.

Rothide: ...Honestly I don't know what the fuck happened to you. Because, being completely fair, you didn't start off as a troll. You started off misguided and argumentative but in the end receptive and at a level even respectful of the opinions of others.

Have you been having a shitty time lately? Did something happen that makes you react to well made arguments in a way so defensive and utterly crap? Since I do realize that possibility, I think that I'm able to tolerate you more than other forum members and willing to wait and see if you can stop being such a fucking douche.

With that said, though, the time will come in which even I will stop tolerating you. And when that happens I will do everything in my power (more than you think) to shame you and insult you into getting the hell out of this forum.

My advise so far, though, is that you should stop coming here for a while, go to a psychologist and when you feel that you can act like a human being again, come back here with the people that are interested in arguing in a civil and respectful manner... And even those who aren't interested in that will receive you better.

Cheers.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do my best Wink
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pun



Joined: 30 Mar 2013
Posts: 35
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jody wrote:
And Rothide is still making it all about himself, despite there being other forums for just this sort of thing.

What a surprise.

Tho I'd like to apologize for using Asperger's in a derogatory fashion. I know a few folks that have it myself. It was out of line.

Rune wrote:
pun wrote:
as someone with aspergers themselves, i do not enjoy seeing it used as an insult.
there are many terms that can be used to describe asshats without diagnosing them with, and thereby demonizing, mental disorders.


I did bring up the possibility that -some- of Roth's behaviors might stem from that. I also contended very strongly that, above and aside from that, he was still being straight-up an ass-hat, and while I have sympathy for the extra difficulties that can cause someone socially, you're right, it's not in and of itself a bad thing. I'm sincerely sorry if anything I've said contributed to the impression of demonization. I do not feel that way at all.

But Roth is using things like that and ADHD as "woe-me," excuses for his above-and-aside ass-hattishness, like it actaully absolves him of the burden of being a half-decent human being.

It's his crap attitude that's painting such disorders as making those who have them hopeless cases who we can't reasonably expect decent behavior from.



thank you.
aspergers may inspire a person to collect objects, tap things, or have trouble taking social hints, but im pretty sure being an asshole isnt one of the symptoms.
please that in mind for all disabilities
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:
stripey: Thanks for the compliment! ^^ I really enjoy our discussions, and they have indeed been helping me with my empathy issues.

Rune: Your eloquence in telling Rothide off has been extraordinary. Congratulations.

Rothide: ...Honestly I don't know what the fuck happened to you. Because, being completely fair, you didn't start off as a troll. You started off misguided and argumentative but in the end receptive and at a level even respectful of the opinions of others.

Have you been having a shitty time lately? Did something happen that makes you react to well made arguments in a way so defensive and utterly crap? Since I do realize that possibility, I think that I'm able to tolerate you more than other forum members and willing to wait and see if you can stop being such a fucking douche.

With that said, though, the time will come in which even I will stop tolerating you. And when that happens I will do everything in my power (more than you think) to shame you and insult you into getting the hell out of this forum.

My advise so far, though, is that you should stop coming here for a while, go to a psychologist and when you feel that you can act like a human being again, come back here with the people that are interested in arguing in a civil and respectful manner... And even those who aren't interested in that will receive you better.

Cheers.


Well if you think this has any barrings then yes, I'll put it out in the open.

April 9th was my birthday, it was also the day I found out my grandmother had Pancreatic Cancer with 1-3 months to live, and my mother may have Congestive Heart Failure. From that time till May 1st I was taking care and living with my grandmother. I say till then, because on that day she died.

Both of these women gave me my views on Feminism, and is the reason I disagree with most of these views I see here on Sinfest. Maybe I'm just being extra defensive about these views because of this.
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1113

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am tremendously sorry for your loss. You must be going through a hard time. Some people here will probably say that you are bullshitting it. I will imagine that you are telling the truth because otherwise it'd mean that I had hugely misunderstood you. Feel free to ignore those people.

If you still want to chat about the forum (I can understand you not wanting to after that,) my advise stays. You are obviously going through a hard time and trust me, these conversations will not make it better. I, myself, have been having some of your same issues with the stances of the forum regulars, but I wouldn't discuss it if I wasn't receptive to dissenting opinions. Try to do that. But before, go seek some counselling, professional or otherwise. I insist, this forum will not make your life better in your current state.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:

I argued "No duh they thought that way, it was the 70's, thats how everyone thought, no need to be angry about idiots in the past thinking the way idiots in the past thought" I thought that the majority of the problems there were being solved, considering we now have laws condemning these practices. If anyone argued that these laws should be repealed I'd stand against them, everyone should have these rights.


And you were wrong, and other people offered you information. Then you threw a tantrum.

Rothide wrote:

Though to tell you the truth, the last part of your second post I think pissed me off. You expect men to be 'ahem' a MAN enough to ask you out the minute we find you attractive. Apparantly anyone who has low self esteem or want's to first study your habits and see if you have anything in common, (or to surprise and impress you ), to you, are stalkers.


You don't understand what I said, and you don't understand what I think. When I explain further, you cease listening, cling to your beliefs and refuse to engage. And you throw a tantrum. That kind of conversation is not worth having.

Rothide wrote:

THough I will admit my low self esteem didn't want to get any lower


Why was your self esteem low?

Rothide wrote:

so I just argued that the past is the past, we shouldn't dwell on it when things are generally improving in those areas. WE don't have dwell on every sin man has done to be able to learn from it, and we don't have to act that having uneducated ideas back before we became educated isn't a sin.


Do you pay attention to news and politics? Or do you live under a rock?

Rothide wrote:

Do you think back and chide your past self for believing an untrue idea back before you knew they were untrue?


About me: I was raised by racist, homophobic asshats. I can never drop the residue of the beliefs of the people who raised me. I'm stuck with it. I recognize that and have reconciled with it.

I've spent a lot of time reflecting on my actions, which I find happens more and more as I get older. I've also met people and read words from people from many walks of life. I have studied world history and local history, and the minority histories that don't get talked about much.

Every so often I remember something horribly offensive I have said or done in the past, and I feel guilty. I wish I could let whoever was around know "When I grow up, I'll understand and I won't do anything like that again." But I can't, and I am okay with that.

Why am I okay with that? Because instead of being defensive, I just listen to other people about their experiences. I ignore the pride and say, "Okay, I've screwed up" when I know I've been offensive. I do some reading on the subject.

Guess what happens? After educating myself, I stop fucking up. I get to have conversations at the adult table, and I get to stay there even when I disagree. And any guilt I feel over past actions is eradicated by knowing I'm never going to be that stupid uneducated again.
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1113

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...By the way. Stripey, the Angry Video Game Nerd, internet personality, has a modded toaster that can play NES games. What do your shovels have to say to that?
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