2013-05-15: Bechdel Test

[Samsally]

I didn't see it mentioned so I'd like to recommend The Song of the Lioness by Tamora Pierce is a four book series that had a huge impact on my childhood. There was a bit of sex in the later books but it was all handled with tasteful boot-scenes. Not super descriptive at all, but you knew it happened.

It really stands out in my mind as one of the few books I really got into that followed a girl turn into a woman. I enjoy most of what Tamora Pierce has written, but the Lioness series is really close to my heart.
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Samsally the GrayAce

[aboutwhistles]

oh man I'm on this now and no one can stop me

The Moorchild by Eloise McGraw
Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes by Eleanor Coerr
The Queen's Fool by Phillipa Gregory
Converting Kate by Beckie Weinheimer
Kissing Kate by Lauren Myracle
The Face on the Milk Carton by Caroline B. Cooney
Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret by Judy Blume
all the Beezus and Ramona books by Beverly Cleary (she writes a lot of great children's books)
Twenty and Ten by Claire Huchet Bishop
The Red Tent by Anita Diamant
Falling Leaves by Adeline Yen Mah
Who Fears Death by Nnedi Okorafor
Half World by Hiromi Goto
Sacagawea by Anna Lee Waldo

Again, I'm not making any promises about the "appropriateness" of any of these, but personally I think kids can handle a lot more than a lot of adults give them credit for, and reading these books definitely gave me the tools I needed to handle life stuff. Tl;dr shit happens to kids, too, better to give them the vocabulary and emotional tools to deal with it.

[aboutwhistles]

Does My Head Look Big in This? by Randa Abdel-Fattah
Estrella's Quinceañera by Malín Alegría
Shizuko's Daughter by Kyoko Mori
Saving Francesca by Melina Marchetta
Never Let Me Go by Kazuo Ishiguro

In retrospect, mad props to my parents and teachers for giving me these awesome books full of awesome girls doing awesome shit in really diverse contexts.

[Miss Magenta]

Aww, man, just this morning I saw Does My Head Look Big In This at the used bookstore I was at with my family. But I didn't grab it... Now I regret it. :(

If we're making suggestions, might I suggest Un Lun Dun by China Mieville? A few months ago my friend introduced it to me and I fell absolutely in love with it.
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[Valerie]

[Mikewee777]

[quote="Arthain"]

[aboutwhistles]

More recommendations from my best friend:
The Boyfriend List by E. Lockhart
The Wee Free Men by Terry Prachett
She echoed the Tamara Pierce Song of the Lioness recommendation
Shabanu, Daughter of the Wind by Suzanne Fisher Staples
Anne of Green Gables
Shrug by Jenny Han
Millicent Min Girl Genius by Lisa Yee
Lots by Gail Carson Levine: Ella Enchanted, The Wish, The Two Princesses of Barmarre, Fairest
Inkheart by Cornelia Funke
Tiger Eyes by Judy Blume
The Winnie Years series by Lauren Myracle

the ones I was trying to remember:
Quest for a Maid by Frances Mary Hendry
Klepto by Jenny Pollack
Perks of Being a Wallflower by Stephen Chobsky
Rx by Tracy Lynn
Burned by Ellen Hopkins
the Uglies series by Scott Westerfeld (Extras too)
A Complicated Kindness by Miriam Toews

[stripeypants]

If you can't conceive of passing the Bechdel Test as a writer, you are essentially saying, "Women have no thoughts or feelings or interests of their own." Another way of saying this is "Women aren't people."

If you excuse yourself by saying, "I don't know how to write women," you are saying, "I am incapable of or too lazy to do research - so really wtf am I writing anything for, because it is much easier to do nothing than learn about the subject matter which I have chosen to write about. I fail as a writer."

Not all things that pass the Bechdel test are good, as Slick shows. Not all things that fail are bad. But the amount of failure at the Bechdel Test contributes to a consensus that women have or should not have any interests outside the male characters - who are actually important.


And imagine if the main excuse were, "But I don't know how to write women!" What would that say about the people who create stories in the film and book industries? What would it say about the industry that it is mainly comprised of people who don't know how to write women?
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[Stripeypants has enabled lurk mode.]

[Dennis J. Squidbunny]

[ShadowCell]

there's plenty of things about that whole subculture that are flesh-crawlingly horrible (like the whole "rape is how i say 'i love you'" thing) but the fact that there are gay people in it is not one of them.

[stripeypants]

I don't like when people just jam two characters together to be able to write teh sexxings either, but one thing is different regarding taking straight characters and making them gay:

There is a dearth of mainstream characters who are not heterosexual, let alone those who are in relationships and who are interesting, nuanced characters that are actually realistic.

Until such time as there is proper representation, there is no reason to complain that people are queering up characters.

And what if that happens? No reason to complain about queerness then either. Complain about bad writing instead.

Ps: All those queer characters that get made straight? Do you know of them? (For example, Fried Green Tomatoes the film vs the book)
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[Stripeypants has enabled lurk mode.]

[aboutwhistles]

Genderbending and slash are two of the best things about fanfiction and no one can tell me any different. Also the portrayals of people being sexual and it being fun. That was important. Thanks, fanfiction!

[stripeypants]

Yes, and the confusion of lube with cake batter is an unfortunate side effect that I think is worth it.

I have an old fanfic that still gets reviews sometimes. People ask me when I'm going to update it. And that makes me both boggle and feel spiffy.
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[Stripeypants has enabled lurk mode.]

[Leohan]

Yeah, the test's a thing, but by itself it doesn't make or destroy good portrayal of females. Sex and the City probably passes it by sheer force of conversations to pick from.
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