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2013-05-19: Destitute
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merest



Joined: 15 May 2011
Posts: 325

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beautifully composed, as always; and I particularly like Little 'E's expressions. The content is rather simplistic. Such witchcraft themes seem taken out of some clichéd manual of Wiccan history. Naturally the witches are always blameless, noble, and beautiful, in order that their audo-da-fes can deftly serve an ideological point about a rabble persecuting their moral superiors. Real life is rarely so black-and-white that it can be depicted in scenes taken without modification from compounded 19th-century melodramas - which both the Noble Witch and Freezing Matchstick Girl scenarios are. That said, it is a well-told story, for what it is. I always admire that burly guard - in all his roles, he seems almost selflessly dutiful, rather than corrupted by serving the, well, Devil. Just my impression.

Last edited by merest on Sun May 19, 2013 7:24 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Mercian



Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shadow Master wrote:
Things


It's cold, people are trying to kill her/harm her and her child, and she has nowhere to go. Her actions seem perfectly reasonable to me.
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Miss Magenta



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 1813
Location: im probably asleep right now

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shadow Master wrote:
a whole lotta bullshit


HEY. THAT THING YOU'RE DOING, LIKE THE ENTIRE THING YOU'RE SAYING? THAT'S CALLED VICTIM BLAMING. AND IT'S NOT COOL.

DON'T DO THAT. :)

THOUGH THAT STRIP YOU LINKED DOES IMPLY THAT SHE LEFT HIM, AT THE SAME TIME, IT'S POSSIBLE SHE WAS BASICALLY SAYING THAT THE PICNIC IS OVER AND GOING HOME. LET'S NOT FORGET THAT THIS STRIP IMPLIED THAT HE LEFT THEM. WE DON'T REALLY KNOW WHICH ONE IT WAS. MAYBE IT WAS NEITHER. MAYBE ONE OF THEM LEFT THE OTHER AT SOME OTHER DATE.

REGARDLESS OF WHO LEFT WHO, AND WHEN, IT DOESN'T MATTER. INVALIDATING HER REASONS FOR LEAVING HIM IS A SHITTY THING TO DO. D-MAN IS A NEGATIVE INFLUENCE UPON HER CHILD, HE IS INSENSITIVE AND ABRASIVE, AND IN GENERAL, WE ARE LEAD TO BELIEVE THAT HE DIDN'T REALLY HELP HER MUCH AT ALL IN RAISING LI'L E, EVEN WHEN THEY WERE TOGETHER. HE WAS - AND CONTINUED TO BE - A NEGLECTFUL, DEADBEAT FATHER. BEING AROUND HIM - A CORPORATE BUSINESSMAN IN CHARGE OF TORMENTING THE DAMNED AND INFLUENCING SIN, WHO HAS TOO HIGH EXPECTATIONS FOR HIS SON AND NEGLECTS HIM WHEN HE DOESN'T ACHIEVE THOSE EXPECTATIONS - IS A HARMFUL ENVIRONMENT FOR A CHILD.

AND SHE DID FINE ON HER OWN FOR A WHILE, SHE HAD A HOME AND WAS ABLE TO RAISE LI'L E WELL ENOUGH ON HER OWN. IT'S NOT UNTIL THE NEIGHBORS FELT THE NEED TO BURN DOWN THEIR HOME FOR BEING DIFFERENT - POSSIBLY AFTER YEARS OF LIVING THERE - DID THEY EXPERIENCE PROBLEMS. AND EVEN THEN, IT SEEMS THAT NOT ONLY WERE THEY ABLE TO GET ANOTHER HOUSE AFTER THIS (BASED ON THE FACT THAT LI'L E SEEMS OLDER IN THESE TWO STRIPS THAN IN THIS ONE) BUT ABLE TO GET ON RATHER WELL WITHOUT HIS INTERFERENCE. SO SURE. NOT A BIG DEAL.

IF SHE IS, HOWEVER, SICK AND DYING IN THIS STRIP (AS SOME HAVE SUGGESTED. I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE NOTIONS, BUT IT'S POSSIBLE) THEN WHAT SHE'S DOING HERE IS NOT CRAWLING BACK TO HIM, OR BEGGING FOR FORGIVENESS. BUT RATHER, TRYING TO CONVINCE THE FATHER OF HER CHILD TO RAISE THEIR SON AFTER SHE'S GONE. OR MAYBE JUST ASKING IF THEIR CHILD COULD STAY, WHILE SHE TRIES TO FIND A NEW HOME FOR THE TWO OF THEM. OR ANYTHING, REALLY. SHE MIGHT NOT NECESSARILY BE ASKING FOR A PLACE FOR THE TWO TO STAY. THERE'S NO DIALOG, SO WE'RE NOT SURE WHAT EXACTLY IS GOING ON HERE. JUST THAT SHE WANTS TO TALK TO HIM, BUT HE'S NOT AVAILABLE.

IF HE IS TOO PROUD TO TAKE CARE OF HIS CHILD IN NEED, THAT'S HIS OWN DAMN FAULT. IT'S HIS FLAW, AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE RECOGNIZED AND CHALLENGED. IT'S NOT HER FUCKING FAULT. SHE IS NOT AT BLAME FOR WHAT SHE FELT WOULD BE BEST FOR THEIR CHILD, AND SHE IS NOT AT BLAME FOR HIS FAILINGS.

NOW GO BE AN IDIOT SOMEWHERE ELSE
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 3143

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shadow Master wrote:
No matter how much he might want to reunite with his own child, that would mean abandoning his principles.


The Devil has principles?
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 2675
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lol son I want to feed and clothe you and protect you but I can't because my principles
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Shadow Master



Joined: 18 May 2012
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yinello wrote:
Lol son I want to feed and clothe you and protect you but I can't because my principles


Feeding, clothing and protecting isn't what parenting is about. A proper parent gives their child skills, wisdom and strength. He tried to do that with his son, but it didn't work because of Lilith's influence.

Also, when someone wrongs you, forgiving them makes you weak.

She took his son and left. That's essentially betrayal.
As such, he disowned her and the son.
Should he back down now, all the things he stands for would come crumbling down: ego, pride, ambition, etc.

And yes, obviously the Devil has principles, much like God has principles. Satanism is based on self-serving ideals (look it up on Wikipedia or whatnot), while Christianity is based on the concept of serving others.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3323
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

She could be there to ask him to use his influence to help stop people trying to kill her and Li'l E.
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Miss Magenta



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 1813
Location: im probably asleep right now

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shadow Master wrote:
Feeding, clothing and protecting isn't what parenting is about. A proper parent gives their child skills, wisdom and strength. He tried to do that with his son, but it didn't work because of Lilith's influence.


HE DID NOT TRY TO GIVE HIS SON ANY OF THOSE THINGS???

HE EXPECTED HIS SON TO BE ABLE TO DO THINGS HE IS PHYSICALLY INCAPABLE OF, AND TO BE JUST LIKE HIM. HE AT NEVER POINT IN TIME TRIED TO GIVE HIS SON ANY WISDOM, ANY STRENGTH, OR ANY SKILLS. WHEN HE DISCOVERED HIS SON WAS PHYSICALLY INCAPABLE OF PRODUCING FIRE FROM HIS FINGERTIPS, HE WALKED THE FUCK AWAY IN DISAPPOINTMENT. HE DID NOT TRY TO TEACH HIM ANYTHING. HE JUST SET THE BAR OF EXPECTATIONS FAR TOO HIGH FOR A GODDAMN TODDLER AND DID NOTHING WHEN THEY COULD NOT BE REACHED.

AGAIN.

HE WAS A NEGLECTFUL, DEADBEAT FATHER.

WHAT SHE DID WAS JUSTIFIED, BECAUSE THAT IS FUCKING HARMFUL TO A CHILD. IT'S A HARMFUL, NEGATIVE ENVIRONMENT THAT WILL NOT DO ANY CHILD GOOD. IT WILL HURT THEM AND TEAR THEM DOWN, AND IT'S FUCKING ABUSE. IT'S NOT PHYSICAL, SURE, BUT IT'S JUST AS BAD.

IF ANYONE WAS TRYING TO GIVE THEIR CHILD WISDOM, SKILLS OR STRENGTH, IT WAS LI'l EVIL'S MOTHER. SHUT THE FUCK UP WITH YOUR STUPID-ASS VICTIM BLAMING AND D-MAN SYMPATHY BULLSHIT, BECAUSE IT WILL NOT FUCKING WORK. HIS MOTHER TAUGHT HIM KINDNESS. SHE IS LIKELY THE REASON WHY, EVEN WHEN HE WOULD GO ON ABOUT HATRED AND NOT HELPING OTHERS, HE'D SLIP UP AND SHOW KINDNESS. HE'D THINK KIND, CARING THOUGHTS. SHE TAUGHT HIM TO APPRECIATE THE BEAUTY OF LIFE. SHE TRIED TO TEACH HIM TO ACCEPT HIMSELF. SHE PROVIDED FOR HIM AND CARED FOR HIM IN WAYS D-MAN NEVER HAS. SHE WAS THERE FOR HIM AND ACTUALLY FUCKING CARED ABOUT HIS WELL-BEING 24/7.
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merest



Joined: 15 May 2011
Posts: 325

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miss Magenta wrote:
SHUT THE FUCK UP WITH YOUR STUPID-ASS VICTIM BLAMING AND D-MAN SYMPATHY BULLSHIT, BECAUSE IT WILL NOT FUCKING WORK.


A rather harsh critique of Sympathy for the Devil. I thought it one of the Stones better works.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6043
Location: California

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shadow Master is an example of why you need to be careful when you go reading Nietzsche, because if you aren't careful, it might turn you into a gibbering fuckwit who says things like "forgiveness is for the weak!"
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Kendra



Joined: 14 Feb 2013
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowMaster needs to leave this forum. He's just being an asshole. Listen, no one agrees with you and you're being a total tool. No, scratch that. You're not a tool, you're the entire tool shed. A good parent teaches his/her child to stand up for themselves yes, but also to express empathy and compassion. Where would this world be now if every father acted like Bid D? I'm not going to argue with you, because frankly, you're opinion isn't even worth a single Kuwait Dinar (the least valued currency on Earth).
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1046

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What the hell, Shadow Master. You're taking that strip where she gets mad at D-man for DESTROYING SOMETHING THAT DELIGHTED THEIR CHILD as her ungratefully leaving his mighty house?

I don't see how the hell could you possibly read that into an even that, for starters, happened outdoors, and clearly shows her comforting her traumatized and frightened BABY, as being anything you're trying to paint it as, if you're not coming into it without some bullshit and misogynistic preconceived notions about what motivates female behavior and male superiority. You're saying an awful lot about yourself and what you think of male-female relationships right now, and none of it is good.

You're bringing that shit to the party. Better stop it unless you want to be mistaken for an asshole, hmm?
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Shadow Master



Joined: 18 May 2012
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The level of humanitarianism here is over 9,000 for sure.

Possibly even over 10,000, if you factor in the Caps Lock.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1046

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, well, too late then.
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Miss Magenta



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 1813
Location: im probably asleep right now

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shadow Master wrote:
bullshit attempt at being clever and funny


Parenting and being a good parent is about a lot of things. It's about providing for your child, and caring for them. It's about giving them the necessary tools, resources, and wisdom to be able to provide for themselves after you're gone. It's about teaching them things they ought to know - like the alphabet, spelling, speaking, ect. It's about making sure they know right from wrong. It's about teaching them to accept themselves, and to not accept other people's bullshit. It's about teaching them empathy, sympathy, kindness, generosity. Anything they will need to function properly in a society as an adult. It's about teaching them to be a better person than you were. It's about love. It's about kindness. It's about caring about their well-being.

It's not about just high expectations, it's not about expecting them to accomplish those expectations, it's not about expecting them to be just like you, it's not about raising them to be some aggressively aggro and violent super soldier or any of that shit, it's not about any of this shit you have been preaching. If you can't treat a child with decency and respect, and raise them to become a decent, functional human being then you don't really have any business having children or raising them. Seriously. What the fuck.

D-man is an neglectful, deadbeat and abusive father. You cannot justify or sympathize with any of the things he has done. He has not once tried to teach his son anything, even when he was still together with Li'l E's mother he did not really participate in raising his son. He did not participate in caring for his son. He neglected him. He ignored him. He gave him unrealistic expectations to achieve. He didn't care if he scared or harmed his child in any way possible, he didn't care if his child is safe or happy, he didn't care about what his child is good at, he didn't care about any of that. What he cared about was that his child would be just like him. But then when his child wanted to become just like him, he didn't care either. He just straight-up does not give a FUCK about his son.

And Li'l Evil's mother had every right to take him and leave. Because he is a negative influence, it is a harmful, negative and toxic environment to raise a child in. It is not betrayal. It is what is right to do for the sake of your child's well-being. And you shouldn't fault her for that. You should not fault her for D-man's failing as a father, and as a spouse. He didn't care about either of them until it was far too late. And that's his own damn fault. Seriously, take your misogynistic, ass-pulled and victim blaming interpretations and ideals else-where because nobody here wants to put up with that shit.

Humanitarianism has nothing to do with it. It's more about the fact you're a dumbass who doesn't understand jack shit about the content you're reading, instead choosing to interpret it in your own fucked up and sexist way of thinking. And frankly, like many others before you, you refuse to listen to any kind of reason or logic. You just jam your fingers in your ears and scream LA LA LA LA at the top of your lungs, trying to lure agreement from others while being aggressively negative with your backwards way of thinking.
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