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In the world of Science: We're all colourblind!
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Valerie



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
Misandry!



Kidding! Very Happy


Razz
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Lasairfiona



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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valerie wrote:
This article said that colorblind men and tetrachromatic women are related, so I wonder if it's one of those genes that's meant to benefit one sex despite the effect on the opposite sex?

No, it was a colorblind man with an extra mutant cone that didn't fix his colorblindness but was there and was weird. So they looked at the related women for the mutant cone. When they had the mutant cone bam! tetrachromatic.
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valerie wrote:
Him wrote:
Lasairfiona wrote:
No, something closer to this. Chris had a bigger block of colors but I didn't find it in my super quick google search.

I got 22, but I was a bit distracted.


18. I tried really hard. ;_;


I got a 15.


I think we should all blame our monitors for us not getting 0s Razz


Also, I think maybe slight differences in the way the brightnesses of different hues are perceived could lead to them balancing the brightness in such a way that they see all of the brightnesses as all the same, but some people would not and might find it more aesthetically pleasing to order by brightness and rack up a few points that way. Maybe? Because I had to consciously ignore brightness in a few places because it looked like it was going from darker, to lighter, to darker again within a few squares going by the right order on hue.


It's hard to set up that sort of test in such a way that it will totally account for everything, and it's not even worth taking on a monitor that doesn't render hues well.
My laptop monitor's decent enough, though, so I don't have much excuse. It's my eyes' fault ='<



EDIT:
retook it, got a 12

Both times I did the worst with the bluish side of cyan. RGB monitors can't actually represent cyan. coincidence? Razz Rolling Eyes hahaha



first time I got a couple mixed up in the ... I guess we can call them oranges? hm. Might just be pure chance I got them right on the second try. Or maybe I was more aware that I wasn't seeing the brightnesses in the right order.


I'm starting to feel a bit stupidly obsessive about this so I'll probably try one more time when I'm using the operating system on this computer that actually has the color profiles set up properly.
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Desire



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I spent no more then 5 minutes on it and got a 15. My mistakes were where the colors transitioned, like yellow to green, green to blue, and blue to purple. I was not surprised. I am really tired right now and just left the transitioning colors where I initially moved them because, meh, too much work, I guess. Rolling Eyes


Maybe I'll try again when I am not so fatigued. No guarantee I'd do better though!
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Desire



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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, so I just did it again (with "help" from Rhett) and got a 4. It is funny because the four I missed were in the green switching to blue area, which are the colors Graeme and I disagree on the most (about which tone are more present).

I emailed the test to him last night, I'll be interested to see how he does when/if he takes it.

I took about twice as long this time taking the test and did play around with the closer ones by moving them back and forth a bit. Rhett and I both took an Ishihara test on youtube that had 24 of the samples and scored perfectly (well, Rhett got two wrong) so at least I know we see colors fairly well.
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, back to the topic of tetrachromacy-- if I'm reading these articles right (has anyone here actually found the wavelength that the fourth cone is detecting?), then a tetrachrome of the sort we've got on our hands here would see things better under a tungsten lamp light than most people, yea?


Most animals that are tetrachromatic see ultraviolet,

which would be really, really cool, and also very useful, but it looks like these people are only getting better judgement of the colors between red and green, as they can distinguish between true yellow and a mix of red and green light, which, if the fourth cone was fully developed, would basically be the same as the difference most people see between green and a mix of blue and red light

they get two different yellows, I guess

one of which they hardly ever see, because of things like this:


(the spectra emitted by an LCD monitor)
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Last edited by Heretical Rants on Tue May 28, 2013 8:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Felgraf



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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't remember, but I think the human tetrachromats cone falls *between* two of the existing ones.

That said, humans CAN appanarently see in, and process, UV! Or at least, some of us. Some people who have had lense replacement surgery (the lens of their eye is replaced by an artificial crystal) have shown the ability to see a bit into the UV spectrum (since the crystal isn't blocking certain wavelengths that the fleshy HUMAAANN lens is).

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/118557-the-eyes-have-it-seeing-ultraviolet-exploring-color
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Felgraf wrote:
I can't remember, but I think the human tetrachromats cone falls *between* two of the existing ones.


yeah, one of the articles said that the test they used was whether they could distinguish between yellow and a mix of red/green, hence everything I said in that last post
gah








Most of the articles about this are written by idiots riding on sensationalism, and not people who actually care about what's actually going on, though, so I can't find any better information than that as of now and I've come across several things that are obviously wrong.
my Google-fu is not good enough






okay, Google scholar helped
Quote:
Our subjects perform a three-alternative temporal forced-choice task, in which two of the stimuli are monochromatic (590 nm) while the third is a mixture of two monochromatic lights (550 nm plus 670 nm).




*flips the bird at the majority of the journalists of popularized science that I just read*
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it so hard to make a diagram?


*grumbles* fucking journalists

okay here I made one myself
sloppily


as you can see, the fourth cone is in kind of a bad place to really add much; by itself it's sort of a worse version of the cone for green, which would explain why it's associated with colorblindness rather than just different color-signtedness (for those who didn't read the articles, the primary candidates for this sort of tetrachrome are the mothers of colorblind men -- it seems their sons get this cone but not the one for green if they get the wrong x chromosome?)
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasairfiona wrote:
No, something closer to this. Chris had a bigger block of colors but I didn't find it in my super quick google search.


Here's a cheat sheet from someone who scored a 0 Very Happy

http://imageshack.us/a/img195/627/screenshot20130528at958.png

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Last edited by Darqcyde on Wed May 29, 2013 2:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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Lasairfiona



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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey! Link that shit for people still trying!

post picture->link edit - thanks.

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Last edited by Lasairfiona on Wed May 29, 2013 2:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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Lasairfiona



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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heretical Rants wrote:
Is it so hard to make a diagram?


*grumbles* fucking journalists

okay here I made one myself
sloppily


as you can see, the fourth cone is in kind of a bad place to really add much; by itself it's sort of a worse version of the cone for green, which would explain why it's associated with colorblindness rather than just different color-signtedness (for those who didn't read the articles, the primary candidates for this sort of tetrachrome are the mothers of colorblind men -- it seems their sons get this cone but not the one for green if they get the wrong x chromosome?)

Thanks! That is actually really awesome research/explanation you did.
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How... how does a cheat sheet even work for this test? I mean. They're literally testing how precisely you can tell colors apart, aren't they? So. I.. what. Seeing them all lined up doesn't make it easier to line them all up if the problem is that you can't tell the colors apart... right?

I'm so confused.

Did I just explain the joke or something?
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Lasairfiona



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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*shrugs* Looked useful to me.
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Sam



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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perfect score!

That test may be biased by viewing angle of common LCD screens, though. Shifting your head around the screen to view at different angles helps.
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