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2013-06-02 Post Traumatic Stress
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wobster109



Joined: 12 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's sad that the picture of Blue got burned. I really liked the picture of Blue.
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Lich Mong



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 475

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
Your sense of right and wrong involve treating sentient beings as objects. That is pretty deserving of the label 'crap.'
I can only assume you did not read what I wrote at all.

My sense of right and wrong involves treating people as people, animals as animals, and things as things.
Do you suggest otherwise?
Heretical Rants wrote:
Well, it is, sooooo...
Care to elaborate?
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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't care enough to have this conversation again. Anyway, it's not necessarily egregiously bad (though it has the potential to take a turn for the worst). It's just... ugh.

I've decided that the only value worth incorporating into any kind of morality is empathy, though I suppose that's not particularly relevant to why I think your morality is stupid. We've already gone over that, I think?
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Lich Mong



Joined: 31 May 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heretical Rants wrote:
I don't care enough to have this conversation again.
But, apparently cared enough to write about how you offhandedly dismiss my entire sense of ethics. Well, your utter disdain for my morality is noted, since I guess that's all you cared to let me know about.

Heretical Rants wrote:
I've decided that the only value worth incorporating into any kind of morality is empathy, though I suppose that's not particularly relevant to why I think your morality is stupid. We've already gone over that, I think?
Well, if we did than I probably would have told you I hold empathy in the utmost regard when it comes to morality. Most moral of human emotions, I would say. One of the most influential causes of human flourishing.

But, I would also say it would be very anthropocentric to judge all creatures as human and with human morals. I still maintain that it would be unfair to hold dolphins--for example--to the same morality system as humans even if they had the same level of sentience (which they might; speech =/= sentience).
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lich Mong wrote:
My sense of right and wrong involves treating people as people, animals as animals, and things as things.

This might be a linguistic mistake, but when you refer to something as having "a purpose" (singular) and compare them to a knife you do a very poor job of looking like you're referring to that person (demon, human, or otherwise) as just a thing.

Also, that is a really shitty wiki article... the whole thing reads like an essay written for a philosophy class. Whoever wrote it should be ashamed of themselves.
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Last edited by Dogen on Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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Lich Mong



Joined: 31 May 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
This might be a linguistic mistake, but when you refer to something as having "a purpose" (singular) and compare them to a knife you do a very poor job of looking like you're referring to that person (demon, human, or otherwise) as anything but a thing.
It was an example for an objective morality system. I am sorry if people took it to mean all things should have the same purpose as a knife. I must have really done a poor job of it if that's how it read.

I meant it to read that a thing is acting in a "moral" way if it is following its purpose, or telos.

Dogen wrote:
Also, that is a really shitty wiki article... the whole thing reads like an essay written for a philosophy class. Whoever wrote it should be ashamed of themselves.
It's also just a page to define a single Greek word, so I'm not sure why you think it should be more extensive than it is.
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lich Mong wrote:
Dogen wrote:
This might be a linguistic mistake, but when you refer to something as having "a purpose" (singular) and compare them to a knife you do a very poor job of looking like you're referring to that person (demon, human, or otherwise) as anything but a thing.
It was an example for an objective morality system. I am sorry if people took it to mean all things should have the same purpose as a knife. I must have really done a poor job of it if that's how it read.

I.. I don't even... what? No one thinks you're saying she has the same purpose as a knife. How it read was you referring to a person as a thing, like a knife, with an equally limited purpose.

Quote:
Dogen wrote:
Also, that is a really shitty wiki article... the whole thing reads like an essay written for a philosophy class. Whoever wrote it should be ashamed of themselves.
It's also just a page to define a single Greek word, so I'm not sure why you think it should be more extensive than it is.

No, doofus, the article on the science of morality. The one with the banner at the top that talks about what a shitty article it is. The one that reads like it was prompted with the question, "Tell me how you feel about Sam Harris and Joseph Daleiden."
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Last edited by Dogen on Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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Lich Mong



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 475

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
I.. I don't even... what? No one thinks you're saying she has the same purpose as a knife. How it read was you referring to a person as a thing, like a knife, with an equally limited purpose.
Well, I meant to say that a person has the purpose of a person.

Dogen wrote:
No, doofus, the article on the science of morality. The one with the banner at the top that talks about what a shitty article it is. The one that reads like it was prompted with the question, "Tell me how you feel about Sam Harris."
Oh... Well, I liked the section I linked. Far away from Sam's.
I'd try to do a better job of explaining my morality myself, but it doesn't seem as if anyone really cares. So I thought I would drop a few wiki links and than get my "doofus" butt back to lurking.
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lich Mong wrote:
Dogen wrote:
I.. I don't even... what? No one thinks you're saying she has the same purpose as a knife. How it read was you referring to a person as a thing, like a knife, with an equally limited purpose.
Well, I meant to say that a person has the purpose of a person.

You did a shitty job of that, and it verges on the level of self-evident, but alright.

Quote:
Dogen wrote:
No, doofus, the article on the science of morality. The one with the banner at the top that talks about what a shitty article it is. The one that reads like it was prompted with the question, "Tell me how you feel about Sam Harris."
Oh... Well, I liked the section I linked. Far away from Sam's.
Well, I'd try to do a better job of explaining my morality myself, but it doesn't seem as if anyone really cares. So I thought I would drop a few wiki links and than get my "doofus" butt back to lurking.

I edited my response because the article fellates Harris and Daleiden equally. Assuming you didn't write the article, it's unimportant.
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Lich Mong



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sigh, double post....
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Last edited by Lich Mong on Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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Lich Mong



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
You did a shitty job of that, and it verges on the level of self-evident, but alright.
Well, I thought it was self-evident, which why I did not feel like it needed this long drawn-out explication that I am now giving, because apparently people need a long drawn-out explanation.

The part that isn't a tautology would be that it is moral to follow one's purpose. THAT part is the requires elaboration, IMO, and philosophical explication.
Dogen wrote:
I edited my response because the article fellates Harris and Daleiden equally. Assuming you didn't write the article, it's unimportant.
Fair enough.
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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lich Mong wrote:


But, I would also say it would be very anthropocentric to judge all creatures as human and with human morals.


Yeah, why the fuck would you do that? Who suggested we judge them morally at all?
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Lich Mong



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heretical Rants wrote:
Yeah, why the fuck would you do that? Who suggested we judge them morally at all?
Well, apparently people(not necessarily you, HR) here seem to think demons should be judged as humans.

People(not necessarily you, HR) here seem to think Fuchsia "should" act human, even though she isn't human.
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those weren't moral judgements, and anyway everything about her is very human.
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Lich Mong



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heretical Rants wrote:
Those weren't moral judgements,
I equate any "shoulds" with morality; else how could you say something "should" do something? How are you evaluating the "should?"
If you don't like it that way, then just assume when I talk about morality I'm just talking about what things "should" do. It would all be semantics at that point anyway. No need to get into a debate about moral 'shoulds' and goal based 'shoulds'.
Heretical Rants wrote:
anyway everything about her is very human.
Why? Because of how she looks? I'm not concerned with how she looks; I am concerned with what she is.

She isn't human, that's the whole point.
(Was she at the same school as Blue and the Devil? 'Cuz, if she was human and becomes human again, then everything I'm saying is moot. However--for right now--she isn't human, and people shouldn't except her to act as one.)
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Last edited by Lich Mong on Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:42 am; edited 2 times in total
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