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Ennis
Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 992
Location: Australia
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 Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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I can't handle romance in Western movies, it's pretty much always terrible. For some reason Korean dramas seem to do it far more interestingly, even though they're probably even more sexist. Probably just because everything is so damn dramatic, with slo-mo and sparkles and closeups all the time.
Does anyone else feel like Tat is still going through very basic beginner's concepts of feminism? It just sort of reminds me of articles I read when I was first getting into things. I look forward to perhaps seeing some more advanced concepts explored later on. I doubt it will happen, but I wonder what would happen if an actual trans* person went into the Trans State. I feel like it could be heartbreaking if they were someone with severe dysphoria, because it would suddenly be cured but they would know if they went outside it they'd be back to the way they were before. Would they maybe build a house in the Trans State? I don't know, it just interests me. *coughbiasedcough* |
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joandark
Joined: 14 Jul 2011
Posts: 269
Location: New Austria
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Twenty-Fifth Night wrote: | | Maswartz wrote: | | So it's ok to generalize about all men but not ok to generalize about women? You do realize equality works both ways right Tat? |
Slick and Squig have always been acting like this... if he had, say, Criminey or Seymour in this strip, then your argument might have been justified. But he didn't, and so it's not. |
So if Tat had a character that was female, and acted highly stereotypically of a female, and was made fun of for acting in those ways, that would be okay and funny (granted that the rest, Nique, Xanthe, Fusha, and the lot, did not partake in the stereotypical action, and were not made fun of for partaking therein)?
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Ennis
Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 992
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| joandark wrote: |
So if Tat had a character that was female, and acted highly stereotypically of a female, and was made fun of for acting in those ways, that would be okay and funny? |
Dude have you even read the comic. That was 'Nique for so many years. |
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joandark
Joined: 14 Jul 2011
Posts: 269
Location: New Austria
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Ennis wrote: | | joandark wrote: |
So if Tat had a character that was female, and acted highly stereotypically of a female, and was made fun of for acting in those ways, that would be okay and funny? |
Dude have you even read the comic. That was 'Nique for so many years. |
True enough. I'm just asking whether that's acceptable. I don't really feel like it is, and I don't feel like this is either, is my point.
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Leohan
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1604
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Ennis wrote: | | joandark wrote: |
So if Tat had a character that was female, and acted highly stereotypically of a female, and was made fun of for acting in those ways, that would be okay and funny? |
Dude have you even read the comic. That was 'Nique for so many years. |
Disagreed. 'Nique has never been a stereotype for anything. She reinvented herself every third strip. The moment when she started being focused enough that you could utter the word stereotype was at her environmentalist stage.
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Heretical Rants
Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 5344
Location: No.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Ennis wrote: | | That was 'Nique for so many years. |
that's a "nope" from me, too
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Ennis
Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 992
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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Except the difference is that society is misogynist, not misandrist. Women (and men, and other genders) who choose to partake in stereotypically female things are looked down upon or condescended to, called frivolous, shallow, etc. It is portrayed as a grave inditement on men, practically a punishment, to accompany a woman shopping. I'm not saying that shopping necessarily has to be fun, but it is portrayed as something that men always hate and have unfairly forced upon them by "the missus". Compare sports. Yes, women get to roll their eyes at it, but a wife who tries to get her husband's attention or help is seen as an interfering nagging bitch who should know better. Women who enjoy sports (when not being called fakes or wannabes) are portrayed as "perfect wives", bringing him beer and sort of participating, never really part of the boys but hey, at least she's not a nag right? And you get to fuck her! Whereas men do not feel the need to be a good shopping buddy, they are not called nags if they whinge the whole time about being dragged along. It's a laugh, they're justified in their displeasure. Can you imagine the portrayal of a wife who grudgingly goes along with her husband to a sports game and every five minutes asks "is it over? are we leaving yet? this is so boring, it's just the same thing over and over"? It wouldn't be flattering.
Yes, you can pick what I've just said apart and find exceptions in some media aimed at women. I am speaking in generalisations, trying to illustrate just a microcosm of the issue here. In the past Slick and Squig have been portrayed almost the exact same way, except the attitude behind it was "this is natural, what to expect". Now Tat's poking fun at the idea and how ridiculous it is, that they're so afraid of their masculinity being tainted by the slightest bit of anything considered feminine. |
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Ennis
Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 992
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Heretical Rants wrote: | | Ennis wrote: | | That was 'Nique for so many years. |
that's a "nope" from me, too |
They said "act highly stereotypical for a female" in regards to how apparently now Slick and Squig are acting "highly stereotypical for males". I was referring to the many strips in which she was portrayed that way, like going gaga over shoes and romance and worrying about being married and in relationships. I never said that was her whole character, but in those instances she was acting "stereotypically".
Edit: And she was the "butt of the joke" in the same way that Squig and Slick are in this one. A sympathetic butt, with character other than being a stereotype, but a butt nonetheless. |
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MerchManDan
Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 2126
Location: Somewhere else.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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Have this:
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| mouse wrote: | almost a shame to waste dennis' talent on him.
except it's always a pleasure to see a good dennis insult. |
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Catel
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 355
Location: France
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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We have seen the characters of Squig and Slick more shaded in the past, more human. Why the sudden caricatures.
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Ennis
Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 992
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| MerchManDan wrote: | Have this:
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Is that for me? That should fill the emptiness in my heart </emo> |
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pun
Joined: 30 Mar 2013
Posts: 35
Location: United States
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| my there are such delicate emotions being displayed on this topic tonight. if only tat had been more gentle with the fragile egos of certain members |
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joandark
Joined: 14 Jul 2011
Posts: 269
Location: New Austria
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| Ennis wrote: | | Yes, you can pick what I've just said... |
I had to try my darndest. Really, I didn't understand what you were getting at, for the most part. Took a re-read or two.
From all I could surmise, you're saying that Tat is making fun of them for being misogynistic, in that they're repulsed by something "girly" and only enjoy things they see as male-approved.
That's something funny I hadn't thought of before: misogyny is so engrained into the fabric of our culture that it's actually a male stereotype to be misogynistic!
I don't know how to feel about this now! It's supporting a sexist stereotype and mindset in saying "Oh, ain't that just like a boy, can't handle the least bit of sentiment" and at the same time saying how unfortunate it is that sentiment, something associated with femininity, is looked down upon due to a sexist mindset.
Is this what it feels like to create a paradox?
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Flavius Maximus
Joined: 07 May 2011
Posts: 1100
Location: The Wrong side of the Reality Zone Sign
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:15 am Post subject: |
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I'll just leave this here.
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MerchManDan
Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 2126
Location: Somewhere else.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| Catel wrote: | | We have seen the characters of Squig and Slick more shaded in the past, more human. Why the sudden caricatures. |
There's nothing sudden about it; these guys have been caricatures since the beginning.
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| mouse wrote: | almost a shame to waste dennis' talent on him.
except it's always a pleasure to see a good dennis insult. |
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