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stripeypants
Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 4741
Location: Land of the Grumpuses
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 Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| joandark wrote: | | Ennis wrote: | | Yes, you can pick what I've just said... |
I had to try my darndest. Really, I didn't understand what you were getting at, for the most part. Took a re-read or two.
From all I could surmise, you're saying that Tat is making fun of them for being misogynistic, in that they're repulsed by something "girly" and only enjoy things they see as male-approved.
That's something funny I hadn't thought of before: misogyny is so engrained into the fabric of our culture that it's actually a male stereotype to be misogynistic!
I don't know how to feel about this now! It's supporting a sexist stereotype and mindset in saying "Oh, ain't that just like a boy, can't handle the least bit of sentiment" and at the same time saying how unfortunate it is that sentiment, something associated with femininity, is looked down upon due to a sexist mindset.
Is this what it feels like to create a paradox? |
Or a male stereotype is the man trying so hard to be a manly man that he jumps at anything coded "for men" and acts repulsed or is repulsed by anything feminine - no matter how harmful or silly.
This satire tends to point out the silliness of sticking rigdly to arbitrary gender codes when actually peope are more nuanced than that.
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Ennis
Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 992
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| joandark wrote: | | Ennis wrote: | | Yes, you can pick what I've just said... |
I had to try my darndest. Really, I didn't understand what you were getting at, for the most part. Took a re-read or two. |
"Pick apart". Goddamn. I'm sorry, I was trying to type quickly because I have things to do and didn't reread at all. Apologies for being incoherent.
| joandark wrote: | | From all I could surmise, you're saying that Tat is making fun of them for being misogynistic, in that they're repulsed by something "girly" and only enjoy things they see as male-approved. |
That was summed up very well. Much better than my weird rant. Yes, a lot of what men are "supposed to be" is basically "not women". Women are emotional, you don't want to be a woman (because women are inferior, misogyny!) so you don't act emotional. You see it when things are being insulted. "Twilight sucks, Twilight is gay, Twilight is for teenage girls." (Yes I mixed in a bit of homophobia in there, it also often ties in with misogyny due to sleeping with men sort of being seen as "a woman thing".) No one (outside of feminist circles) critiques it for being a horrible portrayal of relationships bordering on abusive, or that the main character is never allowed to do things for herself, they usually think that saying it's for "teenage girls" is enough. Seriously the only time I see "teenage boys" being used in the same way is sarcastically in reference to the market of video games and their (bad) portrayal of women, e.g. "character with J-cup breasts and bikini armour aimed at teenage boys". Even then it's the sort of thing that is sort of lapped up, with misogynist male gamers being all like "yeah we like them, it's natural, men are objectified too!!111one tits or gtfo make your own game bitch".
| joandark wrote: | | That's something funny I hadn't thought of before: misogyny is so engrained into the fabric of our culture that it's actually a male stereotype to be misogynistic! |
Yep. I've heard stories from a few trans men about how part of their being accepted as men was being included in a misogynistic whining session about women.
| joandark wrote: | I don't know how to feel about this now! It's supporting a sexist stereotype and mindset in saying "Oh, ain't that just like a boy, can't handle the least bit of sentiment" and at the same time saying how unfortunate it is that sentiment, something associated with femininity, is looked down upon due to a sexist mindset.
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It's more saying "how strange is it that they're okay with these first three things that are arguably more shocking than the last, just because the last is feminine?" if you ask me. Questioning their reaction, sort of making fun of them for having it, since it should just be another part of enjoying whatever they're watching. |
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Heretical Rants
Joined: 20 Jul 2009
Posts: 5344
Location: No.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| MerchManDan wrote: | Have this:
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If I may present a (higher quality and without jpeg artifacts) counter-argument:
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fritterdonut
Joined: 24 Jul 2012
Posts: 1458
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Ennis wrote: | | It is portrayed as a grave inditement on men, practically a punishment, to accompany a woman shopping. I'm not saying that shopping necessarily has to be fun, but it is portrayed as something that men always hate and have unfairly forced upon them by "the missus" |
Giant crowds. People using strollers as battering rams. People walking at a snail's pace. Ungodly amounts of noise. Enough artificial fragrance in half the stores to knock out a horse. People walking into you while they are busy texting. Crappy mall food. Parking lots that are an absolute CLUSTERFUCK OF EPIC PROPORTIONS. Customer service reps that are completely useless. Coffee places charging the equivalent of a kidney for a cup of coffee. Big box stores. Carrying shopping bags around for hours.
I'm surprised that anyone can tolerate shopping. Completely fucking mental.
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Ennis
Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 992
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| fritterdonut wrote: | | Ennis wrote: | | It is portrayed as a grave inditement on men, practically a punishment, to accompany a woman shopping. I'm not saying that shopping necessarily has to be fun, but it is portrayed as something that men always hate and have unfairly forced upon them by "the missus" |
Giant crowds. People using strollers as battering rams. People walking at a snail's pace. Ungodly amounts of noise. Enough artificial fragrance in half the stores to knock out a horse. People walking into you while they are busy texting. Crappy mall food. Parking lots that are an absolute CLUSTERFUCK OF EPIC PROPORTIONS. Customer service reps that are completely useless. Coffee places charging the equivalent of a kidney for a cup of coffee. Big box stores. Carrying shopping bags around for hours.
I'm surprised that anyone can tolerate shopping. Completely fucking mental. |
Haha yeah, I'm not exactly a fan of shopping unless I have something I need to get or am hanging out with friends. My local shopping centre (NOPE NOT A MALL WE DON'T HAVE MALLS THIS IS 'STRAYA) isn't nearly as bad as what you describe though. Although the coffee is probably more expensive than even America (is yours an average of $4-$5?).
Also the shopping centre carpark has these cool lights that let you know where the empty spots are with digital signs showing you the way. |
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fritterdonut
Joined: 24 Jul 2012
Posts: 1458
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:17 am Post subject: |
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I'm not American (well, I am from the North American continent, so strictly speaking I am, I am not however a citizen of the USA), I'm Canadian.
A cup of coffee at the local mall costs me $3 or $4 CAD for normal coffee, more if I get an Americano or similar. Part of the problem is the mall only has 'fancy' coffee bars (Second Cup, Starbucks, etc), no regular chain stores like Tim Hortons or the like where a cup of coffee is normally only a buck or two for a large.
Also, I have driven in circles in the bloody parking lot for a solid 20 minutes trying to find a spot, only to leave enraged and have to park like 5 blocks away.
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The Thirties dreamed white marble and slipstream chrome, immortal crystal and burnished bronze, but the rockets on the covers of the Gernsback pulps had fallen on London in the dead of night, screaming. - William Gibson, The Gernsback Continuum |
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Ennis
Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 992
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:38 am Post subject: |
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| fritterdonut wrote: | | I'm not American (well, I am from the North American continent, so strictly speaking I am, I am not however a citizen of the USA), I'm Canadian. |
Whoops. Oh well, not like Americans and Canadians don't conflate Australia with New Zealand when we're separated by miles and miles of ocean. Urgh why am I using miles we use metric here.
| fritterdonut wrote: | A cup of coffee at the local mall costs me $3 or $4 CAD for normal coffee, more if I get an Americano or similar. Part of the problem is the mall only has 'fancy' coffee bars (Second Cup, Starbucks, etc), no regular chain stores like Tim Hortons or the like where a cup of coffee is normally only a buck or two for a large.
Also, I have driven in circles in the bloody parking lot for a solid 20 minutes trying to find a spot, only to leave enraged and have to park like 5 blocks away. |
Dude there is literally nowhere you can get a cup of coffee here for a dollar. What is this sorcery.
That's why the lights are so cool, they let you know if there's a space. Except for the troll lights that don't register when a car's actually parked there. That's annoying. |
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Ronald
Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 3456
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:40 am Post subject: |
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Hey, at least they're watching (apparently) an action movie and not outright porn. That is, by almost any definition, an improvement.
Also, they're on the right side of the panels. In almost all if not entirely all previous strips of Slick and Squig watching TV together, they've been on the left side of the panels. That surely means something unless it doesn't.
Slick, Squig, and Crim have been depicted watching TV together before. I presume that in those cases Crim is simply content to watch whatever his friends want to watch, since I harbor doubt that Slick and Squig would much enjoy Crim's tastes in TV/film. I could be wrong about that, though.
So, why have we yet to see the awkward occasion when one friend (Crim) wants to bring his girlfriend (Fuchsia) along to hang out with the guys because he wants her to like his friends and vice versa? That might be entertaining. Of course, it's not at all clear that Slick and Squig are even aware that Crim has a girlfriend, much less a Devil Girlfriend. It'd be nice if Tat cleared something up for a change, wouldn't it?  |
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lostinube
Joined: 08 Apr 2013
Posts: 66
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:44 am Post subject: |
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Well, we don't know that they are watching the same thing in every panel.
For all we know, they could be watching an MMA match:
Biff Bam Boom - Fighters are on their feet and trying to knock each other out via strikes.
Blood Guts Gore - He tagged him and opened a cut over his eye!
Unf Unf Unf - He's got him in the mount!
Delicate Emotions - Fight is over! Let's hug! |
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Mr. Meddler
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 2209
Location: On the sunny side of the street
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:25 am Post subject: |
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I am sure that Gay Man (whoever his name is) would easily cry his eyes out at the mention of *sniff* delicate emotions... *cries into hanky*
Not to jump into the thing, but can it be said that men in general nowadays have been 'trained' into shunning so-called delicate emotions?
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Zhuinden
Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 315
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| Mr. Meddler wrote: |
Not to jump into the thing, but can it be said that men in general nowadays have been 'trained' into shunning so-called delicate emotions? |
I can guarantee you that back in the day, I learned the concept of "to be masculine, you should not show your emotions pretty much ever - in fact, be as emotionless as possible ~ and then you will be accepted, liked and respected" from SOMEWHERE... Afterwards, it is easy to train yourself accordingly. |
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stripeypants
Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 4741
Location: Land of the Grumpuses
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| Ennis wrote: |
| joandark wrote: | | That's something funny I hadn't thought of before: misogyny is so engrained into the fabric of our culture that it's actually a male stereotype to be misogynistic! |
Yep. I've heard stories from a few trans men about how part of their being accepted as men was being included in a misogynistic whining session about women.
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I've run into forums where that's what they do, and they police gender so hard.
Also, one of the first times some guys tried to help me feel included, they referred to a garrison cap as a 'cunt cap,' and other things they could have totally explained in a non-sexist way. It was one of those out of the blue things, and I wasn't sure whether I ought to just be glad I was included or tell them I was apalled.
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crayven
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 267
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:42 am Post subject: |
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Yes, how DARE people not like what I like !? How dare they have their own tastes !!
Ingrates !! |
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Dogen
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 11274
Location: PDX
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| crayven wrote: | Yes, how DARE people not like what I like !? How dare they have their own tastes !!
Ingrates !! |
crayven: a case study in missing the point.
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Yinello
Joined: 09 May 2012
Posts: 3463
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| Dogen wrote: | | crayven wrote: | Yes, how DARE people not like what I like !? How dare they have their own tastes !!
Ingrates !! |
crayven: a case study in missing the point. |
I admit it's fun to watch. Like a monkey discovering what it's like to slip on a banana peel. |
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