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6/30/2013 Domestic Violence
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1043

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:
Rune wrote:
Robot's "feelings" are programmed, purchased, and owned. This isn't about capability, it's about choice and mutuality. If you think that "purchased" affection is equal to real affection, that there is any kind of mutuality, or that the guy WHO DISASSEMBLED HER AT THE SLIGHTEST PROVOCATION "loved" her to any degree, then you've got PROBLEMS.

The taunters did not cause him to go ballistic on her. There was something about the arrangement of their relationship (say, the whole ownership bit and not actually seeing her as a person, but as someTHING to fulfill a particular desire of his, part of which was status if his public strut and later reaction to the mockery is any indication,) that made that seem like an acceptable action of some kind on his part. That element was present in their "relationship" from the beginning. That you can call something like that "love" tells me more about you than I want to know, and none of it is good.


So just because he's robosxual, then was chastised for being robosxual, then had to show he wasn't robosxual, he never actually loved the robot. You can't have it both ways rune, you can't say that fembots have a personality and life beyond their programming, then say no one can actually have a relationship with them because they are only programmed.


I'm saying that he didn't have a relationship with her BEYOND her programming. Not that he couldn't, but that he didn't. There is no contradiction there.
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Lich Mong



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 475

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
Robot's "feelings" are programmed, purchased, and owned. This isn't about capability, it's about choice and mutuality. If you think that "purchased" affection is equal to real affection, that there is any kind of mutuality, or that the guy WHO DISASSEMBLED HER AT THE SLIGHTEST PROVOCATION "loved" her to any degree, then you've got PROBLEMS
Lich Mong wrote:
I rage pretty hard when I see loyalty being rewarded with betrayal, so what the guy did was indefensible.
Lich Mong wrote:
As I said, what the guy did was indefensible.


Anyway, if you're going to dismiss the FemBot as something unable to experience anything "real," then we don't have anything more to discuss.
Our views on Sentience are too far apart.

I agree with Daniel Dennett when it comes to p-zombies. If you're going to dismiss her as something without a "soul" or some other intangible-mumbo than I'm not going to try and argue with you about it.
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Lich Mong



Joined: 31 May 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
I'm saying that he didn't have a relationship with her BEYOND her programming.
What the hell does that even mean in context?
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Last edited by Lich Mong on Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
Rothide wrote:
Lich Mong wrote:
So, are you saying robots aren't capable of "real" love?

I don't see why either the robot's feelings or the man's feelings should be considered disingenuous.

Who are you to say what "love" is?


This might be bad, but I agree with you.

What's to say his views before the relationship was ridiculed wasn't love, and his view on it changed when everyone called her fake, and then he decided she was fake and could take his anger of others out on this stupid robot he bought.

I think the smarter thing to do is return it and get your money back, that's what I do with games I don't like after getting them. So yeah, the guy is evil and dumber than the wrench.


Are you seriously making sarcastic points about loving your Nintendog in order to -agree- with the idea that the guy could possibly have really loved the bot that he bought, used, and then trashed when he wasn't satisfied with the product?


Actually no rune, I made that sarcastic comment because you were implying that the robot had a broder personality than just her programming, thus he can't treat her as property.

But then you went and said that she doesn't have a broder personality than her programming, so thee is no way he could have a relationship with her.

So basically, your running in circles to prove yourself right. I dont need to argue against you, your doing a good enough job for the both of us.
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Rune



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having reading comprehension problems? I never said that. You're the one who compared her to a freaking RealDoll with, I assume, a straight face.

Good for you, you recognize violence towards loyalty as bad. But do you seriously not see that there were problems with the entire arrangement well before that point, and that influenced that outcome? Especially if you're taking the position that she does have a soul, how can you possibly condemn the after, but be fine with everything that led up to it? Aside from trying to foist some of that culpability off on the jeering crowd who "just couldn't let them be happy."

Do you have no problem with a person who would purchase another being with a soul, with the intention of benefiting from and taking advantage of their brainwashing? Do you seriously call that love?
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Rune



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:
Rune wrote:
Rothide wrote:
Lich Mong wrote:
So, are you saying robots aren't capable of "real" love?

I don't see why either the robot's feelings or the man's feelings should be considered disingenuous.

Who are you to say what "love" is?


This might be bad, but I agree with you.

What's to say his views before the relationship was ridiculed wasn't love, and his view on it changed when everyone called her fake, and then he decided she was fake and could take his anger of others out on this stupid robot he bought.

I think the smarter thing to do is return it and get your money back, that's what I do with games I don't like after getting them. So yeah, the guy is evil and dumber than the wrench.


Are you seriously making sarcastic points about loving your Nintendog in order to -agree- with the idea that the guy could possibly have really loved the bot that he bought, used, and then trashed when he wasn't satisfied with the product?


Actually no rune, I made that sarcastic comment because you were implying that the robot had a broder personality than just her programming, thus he can't treat her as property.

But then you went and said that she doesn't have a broder personality than her programming, so thee is no way he could have a relationship with her.

So basically, your running in circles to prove yourself right. I dont need to argue against you, your doing a good enough job for the both of us.


Read it again. You misread things frequently, Rothide, so try again. I said that her "please the master" programming wasn't real love. Not that she wasn't capable of love, nor that the programming was the sum of her being. We don't know what the full sum of a bot's potential personhood is yet, because none of them have been given the chance to fully explore that yet, though we're seeing some action without the pleasure protocol dictating things from Botsy. Clearly, their potential is greater than just the pleasure protocol, and we've seen evidence of actual emotion that is not dictated by that protocol.
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Lich Mong



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me see if I can be more clear since you keep missing it: The guy was a fucktard.

I am saying the people on the street judging them were also in the wrong.

Also, I am not assuming she is like a RealDoll. I am assuming she is just as Sentence as the guy she was dating. The RealDoll example was just for those who WERE assuming she was a p-zombie.
I am not making that assumption myself, nor did I ever writing anything about how I was. I've been writing I think her emotions were real, you--Rune--are the one arguing they're not.
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Rune



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You called it love and happiness, Lich, and defended that point multiple times. You still defending that, or are you backing up on that point?
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
Rothide wrote:
Rune wrote:
Rothide wrote:
Lich Mong wrote:
So, are you saying robots aren't capable of "real" love?

I don't see why either the robot's feelings or the man's feelings should be considered disingenuous.

Who are you to say what "love" is?


This might be bad, but I agree with you.

What's to say his views before the relationship was ridiculed wasn't love, and his view on it changed when everyone called her fake, and then he decided she was fake and could take his anger of others out on this stupid robot he bought.

I think the smarter thing to do is return it and get your money back, that's what I do with games I don't like after getting them. So yeah, the guy is evil and dumber than the wrench.


Are you seriously making sarcastic points about loving your Nintendog in order to -agree- with the idea that the guy could possibly have really loved the bot that he bought, used, and then trashed when he wasn't satisfied with the product?


Actually no rune, I made that sarcastic comment because you were implying that the robot had a broder personality than just her programming, thus he can't treat her as property.

But then you went and said that she doesn't have a broder personality than her programming, so thee is no way he could have a relationship with her.

So basically, your running in circles to prove yourself right. I dont need to argue against you, your doing a good enough job for the both of us.


Read it again. You misread things frequently, Rothide, so try again. I said that her "please the master" programming wasn't real love. Not that she wasn't capable of love, nor that the programming was the sum of her being. We don't know what the full sum of a bot's potential personhood is yet, because none of them have been given the chance to fully explore that yet, though we're seeing some action without the pleasure protocol dictating things from Botsy. Clearly, their potential is greater than just the pleasure protocol, and we've seen evidence of actual emotion that is not dictated by that protocol.


He doesn't have to receive love in order to LOVE a fembot. there is this thing called Object Sexuality. So your argument that something that can't love you back isn't actually love is kinda bunked by that. It's a different sexuality, just like Homosexuality, Heterosexuality, etc. If anything the man was forced back into the closet by the people on the street, and was influenced by them to take his agression out on the 'object' that caused him this stress.

Either way though, the guy was a fucktard.
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Lich Mong



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
You called it love and happiness, Lich, and defended that point multiple times. You still defending that, or are you backing up on that point?
I am saying there was no reason for the people on the street to assume they weren't experiencing 'real' love. There was no reason for the public to assume the robot's or the guy's emotions were disingenuous based solely on her being a robot.

To the other point:
If you assume the robot is a p-zombie, then this isn't an emotionally moving comic and the guy's actions were amoral. Because I am not making that assumption:
The guy was a fucktard.

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The deeper disagreement we are having is because you think programmed felt emotions aren't "real" and I feel all felt emotions are "real."

If something is feeling them, then they're real feelings, regardless of the source.
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Rune



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide, he was willing to destroy and scrap her for being teased that she wasn't real. This has nothing to do with sexuality. That's not love. I'm not even going to argue the object sexuality thing with you, or whether or not that's what he was actually experiencing or not. He scrapped and trashed her when she wasn't the product he wanted her to be. That. Isn't. Love.

Lich, if the people on the street knew what a fembot was, of course they had reason to view the relationship that way. We have been shown Botsy as an exception to this rule, but we have been shown the conveyor belts, the boxes, the remote controls. These punks KNOW what role fembots fill, they know what people buy them for. They're not exactly stretching themselves to make the assumption that it's not "twu wuv." It would have been nicer not to say anything, sure, but their view of the situation wasn't exactly off-base, because that's how this world uses fembots up to now.
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Rothide



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
Rothide, he was willing to destroy and scrap her for being teased that she wasn't real. This has nothing to do with sexuality. That's not love. I'm not even going to argue the object sexuality thing with you, or whether or not that's what he was actually experiencing or not. He scrapped and trashed her when she wasn't the product he wanted her to be. That. Isn't. Love.

Lich, if the people on the street knew what a fembot was, of course they had reason to view the relationship that way. We have been shown Botsy as an exception to this rule, but we have been shown the conveyor belts, the boxes, the remote controls. These punks KNOW what role fembots fill, they know what people buy them for. They're not exactly stretching themselves to make the assumption that it's not "twu wuv." It would have been nicer not to say anything, sure, but their view of the situation wasn't exactly off-base, because that's how this world uses fembots up to now.


Yeah lich, the people have the right to judge the man because he was with an fembot because of what the fembot does, just like christians have the right to judge gays because of their homosexuality, republicans have the right to judge mexicans because of their shirking of immigration laws.

Nice to see your blaming the victim for his actions too.
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Rothide



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^ that was sarcasm by the way.
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Lich Mong



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to try one more time, and then I'm going to give up:

Assuming the Robot is a p-zombie:
The people had no right to judge just because the guy was in a relationship with an unfeeling object. The guy's actions were amoral and he wasn't hurting anyone; he should have been left alone.

Assuming the Robot isn't a p-zombie (which I--personally--think is correct):
The people had no right to judge the relationship as disingenuous. They had no right to mock two sentence in love. If both the robot and the guy felt love, then that love was real by the very fact both felt it. (clearly, the guy did not, but the people on the street couldn't tell).
Also, the guy was a murdering-fucktard at the end.


If something feels an emotion, then that emotion is real.
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Rothide



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lich Mong wrote:
I'm going to try one more time, and then I'm going to give up:

Assuming the Robot is a p-zombie:
The people had no right to judge just because the guy was in a relationship with an unfeeling object. The guy's actions were amoral and he wasn't hurting anyone; he should have been left alone.

Assuming the Robot isn't a p-zombie (which I--personally--think is correct):
The people had no right to judge the relationship as disingenuous. They had no right to mock two sentence creates in love. If both the robot and the guy felt love, then that love was real by the very fact both felt it. (clearly, the guy did not, but the people on the street couldn't tell).

Also, the guy was a murdering-fucktard at the end.


She has a problem with the latter cause she was "programmed to love" thus it can't be love, which I don't agree with, cause there were people that loved each other even though they were arranged to marry at birth.
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