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2013-07-20: Fembot 3000
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Ricia



Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:


Ricia, I think owning some sort of AI is okay in te real world where that AI is not sentient. If you're alking about Sinfest style ts, that's similar or the same as asking if it is okay to keep a slave for any reason.


Yes, I realize that now, I was working under a misconception.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1043

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ricia wrote:
Oh, I though only the one fembot had gained sentience. I didn't realize they all had that. I thought they were just computers. Never mind then.

Quote:
They *can* have free will. Just because they don't realize it doesn't mean it isn't there.

They've internalized the sexist views of their oppressors. They're in an even deeper version of the Patrix.


Oh! See I missed this at first and this explains it so well. I've never been able to grasp the whole robot=oppressed women thing. I can have problems with symbolism sometimes, but I can get this. Thank you so much.


I just want to hug you for not being a defensive, whiny, backpedaling jackass who takes everything personally, and so can't take them at all, like so very many others who get corrected at any point tend to be. Really, truly, thank you for setting an example for all of how easy it is to avoid letting things degrade into a blinding shitstorm if you just, you know, react like a sane human being when being presented with a new perspective on something.

What a delightful breath of fresh air.
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Valerie



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D'oh. Of course I typed this whole big thing before seeing multiple comments where no one is interested. Most of you probably want to skip this. I'm sorry. ._.

Ricia wrote:
Not exactly related to the comic but the more I think of the Fembots the more I wonder, is there any okay situation to own one of these? Could one have one to just keep them company? People like the elderly or such who might not have people in their lives? Some people have social phobias and anxieties and the predicable nature of a Fembot might be comforting to people like that. Is purchasing one automatically wrong or is it your intentions for such?


Istancow wrote:
Well, what we've sort of established is that fembots are people, after a fashion. So running with that, yes owning one would be wrong.


That's an interesting line of thought.

Depending on exactly how sentient the Fembots are, the answer could be different. We've been shown by Roguebot that they're capable of surviving on their own without humans, but is that just a matter of her reprogramming? Would the default-programmed Fembots be able to survive without people the way that she does? If they can't, would it be beneficial for them to be bought by humans as long as they have purer intentions then the ones advertised?

If default Fembots are on the same level as humans, in that they can survive well enough on their own, then it would be wrong to own one. If they're closer to the ability of dogs, it could be looked at like the difference between a pet dog or a stray dog. Stray dogs can starve or be hit by a bus, so being kept as a pet tends to be more helpful to them.

Again, Roguebot is proof that the Fembots have the potential to survive on their own if given the right programming... Actually, was she even reprogrammed? If she was just shown images of women being mistreated and she got angry as a result, that shows that she didn't need to be reprogrammed to end up where she is, living independently. If that's the case, then the default Fembots would also have the potential to get angry without reprogramming and to strike out on their own.

On a separate note, I'm afraid that this is where robots in the real world are heading. We've already got robots made for companionship and sex that are designed to seem human. At what point do we know that they actually have feelings instead of simulating them? It all makes me very uncomfortable to think that we might end up creating something sentient and then treating it as though it doesn't have rights.

Oh wow, okay, I've rambled long enough. o_o I think my point is: owning Fembots for simple company might be like owning a pet or it might be like slavery, but it really depends on exactly where the Fembots fall in terms of independence.
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Istancow



Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 1050
Location: Chamber of the House of Lords in the Palace of Westminister

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, they weren't really programmed in any sense I understand. They were just sort of stuck on a conveyor belt with television screens.

So it seems that their programming was to be more or less human, and then they were brainwashed into the specific attitudes that Devilcorp intended them to have.

But that makes the whole reality zone effect a bit confusing.

Now I'm confused. I will have to ponder this.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1043

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valerie wrote:
Again, Roguebot is proof that the Fembots have the potential to survive on their own if given the right programming... Actually, was she even reprogrammed? If she was just shown images of women being mistreated and she got angry as a result, that shows that she didn't need to be reprogrammed to end up where she is, living independently. If that's the case, then the default Fembots would also have the potential to get angry without reprogramming and to strike out on their own.


These are the few things we know for sure about the chain of events:

Curly replaces images of joyful subservience in the factory with images of historical female oppression. The bots on the conveyor belt rise up with claws and angry eyes, then get shut down by some emergency control lever and are scrapped.

Slick takes his fembot (Botsy) into the reality zone, she is no longer controllable, and wanders off on her own, showing expressions of happiness and interest in the world, and independent will.

Botsy returns to the factory (we don't know if by accident or from memory) and finds the ruined remains of the fembots that got the images of oppression, and who were scrapped by their creators. She accesses those memories, and we are told that her emotional range has expanded, and she accesses "rage mode."

She later states that her "pleasure protocol" has been "supplanted" by rage.

------

All of that says to me that there is a "self" underneath the "pleasure protocol" that just needs the opportunity to function independent of it, and that rage is one thing that can overcome it.

Perhaps ironically, the function of the "reality zone" seems more poetic than technical, and Slick experienced some poetic justice for thinking that he could have a real girl still work by remote control.
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Ricia



Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
Ricia wrote:
Oh, I though only the one fembot had gained sentience. I didn't realize they all had that. I thought they were just computers. Never mind then.

Quote:
They *can* have free will. Just because they don't realize it doesn't mean it isn't there.

They've internalized the sexist views of their oppressors. They're in an even deeper version of the Patrix.


Oh! See I missed this at first and this explains it so well. I've never been able to grasp the whole robot=oppressed women thing. I can have problems with symbolism sometimes, but I can get this. Thank you so much.


I just want to hug you for not being a defensive, whiny, backpedaling jackass who takes everything personally, and so can't take them at all, like so very many others who get corrected at any point tend to be. Really, truly, thank you for setting an example for all of how easy it is to avoid letting things degrade into a blinding shitstorm if you just, you know, react like a sane human being when being presented with a new perspective on something.

What a delightful breath of fresh air.


Oh you're welcome. I was obviously misunderstanding something and once that was explained there was little point in pursuing my original line of thought. I'm glad I could make you happy though.
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Theia



Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 90
Location: California

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
Valerie wrote:
Again, Roguebot is proof that the Fembots have the potential to survive on their own if given the right programming... Actually, was she even reprogrammed? If she was just shown images of women being mistreated and she got angry as a result, that shows that she didn't need to be reprogrammed to end up where she is, living independently. If that's the case, then the default Fembots would also have the potential to get angry without reprogramming and to strike out on their own.


These are the few things we know for sure about the chain of events:

Curly replaces images of joyful subservience in the factory with images of historical female oppression. The bots on the conveyor belt rise up with claws and angry eyes, then get shut down by some emergency control lever and are scrapped.

Slick takes his fembot (Botsy) into the reality zone, she is no longer controllable, and wanders off on her own, showing expressions of happiness and interest in the world, and independent will.

Botsy returns to the factory (we don't know if by accident or from memory) and finds the ruined remains of the fembots that got the images of oppression, and who were scrapped by their creators. She accesses those memories, and we are told that her emotional range has expanded, and she accesses "rage mode."

She later states that her "pleasure protocol" has been "supplanted" by rage.

------

All of that says to me that there is a "self" underneath the "pleasure protocol" that just needs the opportunity to function independent of it, and that rage is one thing that can overcome it.

Perhaps ironically, the function of the "reality zone" seems more poetic than technical, and Slick experienced some poetic justice for thinking that he could have a real girl still work by remote control.


That's interesting. Don't things revert to their previous states when they leave the Reality Zone? The supposed independence gained by the fembot as a result of her essentially shaking off her programming should have been lost upon the restoration of that programming when she leaves the Reality Zone, right?
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1043

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theia wrote:
Rune wrote:
Valerie wrote:
Again, Roguebot is proof that the Fembots have the potential to survive on their own if given the right programming... Actually, was she even reprogrammed? If she was just shown images of women being mistreated and she got angry as a result, that shows that she didn't need to be reprogrammed to end up where she is, living independently. If that's the case, then the default Fembots would also have the potential to get angry without reprogramming and to strike out on their own.


These are the few things we know for sure about the chain of events:

Curly replaces images of joyful subservience in the factory with images of historical female oppression. The bots on the conveyor belt rise up with claws and angry eyes, then get shut down by some emergency control lever and are scrapped.

Slick takes his fembot (Botsy) into the reality zone, she is no longer controllable, and wanders off on her own, showing expressions of happiness and interest in the world, and independent will.

Botsy returns to the factory (we don't know if by accident or from memory) and finds the ruined remains of the fembots that got the images of oppression, and who were scrapped by their creators. She accesses those memories, and we are told that her emotional range has expanded, and she accesses "rage mode."

She later states that her "pleasure protocol" has been "supplanted" by rage.

------

All of that says to me that there is a "self" underneath the "pleasure protocol" that just needs the opportunity to function independent of it, and that rage is one thing that can overcome it.

Perhaps ironically, the function of the "reality zone" seems more poetic than technical, and Slick experienced some poetic justice for thinking that he could have a real girl still work by remote control.


That's interesting. Don't things revert to their previous states when they leave the Reality Zone? The supposed independence gained by the fembot as a result of her essentially shaking off her programming should have been lost upon the restoration of that programming when she leaves the Reality Zone, right?


Not necessarily. The actions of the bots at the factory indicate that they have some degree of free will while not being directly controlled. They were able to rise up for a brief moment without the Reality Zone being involved at all. It took throwing a switch to stop the uprising.

As I see it, while in the Reality Zone, Botsy's connection to her controller was broken long enough for her to get out of range, and start exercising her free will, which has led to other changes, her accessing the same material that motivated the factory bots being primary. Thus far, no one has attempted to re-establish control over her that way, and she's gone through other changes while outside of both the Reality Zone, and the remote's control range. It'll be interesting to see what happens when and if someone (say, Slick, who had the original controller, or DevilCorp, who might have a universal one,) attempts to re-establish control. Has she been on her own long enough to have totally escaped the possibility of control? Did that moment set off a chain-reaction that gets harder to reverse the longer it goes uncorrected?

I hope so. Otherwise, it could be very tragic.
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purplepolkadottedpiranha



Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which makes me wonder if you could free the fembots by simply breaking their remote controllers even when they are not in the reality zone or if you have to be in the zone in order for it to work.
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