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2013-07-25: Stop The Genocide
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LadySunami



Joined: 04 May 2009
Posts: 187
Location: Elsewhere

PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:44 am    Post subject: Re: Reductio ad absurdum Reply with quote

Guu wrote:
On a more personal note, my wife and I have been trying to conceive for years and have suffered through at least 5 miscarriages. In each case, we had not made it to 6 weeks (bad things tended to start around week 5) and while each time it was traumatic, I didn't feel like a baby had died in each instance. I may be wrong, but that's how I felt. But now, we have finally made it beyond 6 weeks are are now over 7 weeks in. We had an ultrasound last Friday and I didn't know what I was going to see. I assumed an egg sack and yolk and a very tiny shrimp-looking thing. And, sure enough, that is what I did see. What I was stunned to see, however, was the flutter of a heartbeat going at 122 beats per minute. Even at the size of a pea and still an embryo, how could I help but see this as a tiny human?

After this experience, I looked up the stages of development so I could know what to expect at next Tuesday's ultrasound. I've learned that hands and feet are developing, brain cells are being produced at an amazing rate, and even some organs have formed. There's a liver that's churning out red blood cells until the bone marrow can develop and take over the job. There's also a pancreas and appendix and even eyelids in addition to the aforementioned heart that is beating away.

I admit that I used to be more cavalier in my attitude towards abortion. I even bought the "mass of protoplasm" line for a time. But the very thought of stopping this life, even at this very early stage, is a thought I simply cannot bear. And at 20 weeks? Well, that answers itself.

As you and your wife have been trying to conceive, it's only natural you wouldn't want to stop that life. My feelings for fetuses are somewhat similar to my feelings for pets (and I do mean somewhat, as there is no perfect analogy). I am saddened by the fact that stray dogs are put down if they aren't adopted, but at the same time I don't consider it to be tragic. Now if someone were to go and murder my family's dog, you can bet I would be more then "a little saddened," I would be horrified! I know my dog isn't a person, but he has been a part of my family for many years and the experiences I have shared with him mean a lot to me.
Along similar lines, if you and your wife didn't want to have a child, you wouldn't really feel an attachment to that little shrimp-looking thing the size of a pea. But you DO want a child. It isn't an unwanted pregnancy, it is very wanted! It is something wonderful precisely because the two of you have already built hopes and dreams around it! For you, the parents, it is not just a fetus any more, it's your future child! After all, a brick tossed aside is not a house nor something to be treasured, but the first brick deliberately put into place is the cornerstone of a future home.
I wish you and your wife the best of luck in building your family.
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Yinello



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh my gawsh magic schoolbus <3
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Kung Fu Jesus



Joined: 24 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heretical Rants wrote:




I know I'm pretty late, but OH MY GOD, YOU WERE RUNNING GHCi, I WANT TO HUG YOU <3
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish people arguing about the happiness of the fetus would remember that pregnant people also have hearts and brains and sometimes multiple limbs. Also that situations exist which are different than your own.

If abortion were uncontested, without a heated debate surrounding it, and a pregnant person asked me for advice, here is what I'd say:

"Think about it carefully, because life is precious."

And if they were unsure or very, very young I'd suggest they get some kind of counsel. If they wanted help, I'd go looking for it. If money were the issue and I could do something about it, I'd try to help them get income assistance - because I think people who want kids should be able to have them.

If they had been raped, I'd try to help them get counseling, and I'd support whatever decision they made - because rape is all about taking power away from a person. It would therefore be wrong to hurt and punish them further by denying them the right to make a decision for themselves.

If they were a grown adult I was friends with, I'd ask them what they needed. I'd probably bring them food - their favorite thing, covered with sparkly sprinkles. Then I'd just tell them to research and use their best judgement. I'd help them research if they didn't feel up to it.

If they were being forced to carry a pregnancy (By a person or by their government), I'd do whatever I could to help them. If I could get a plane ticket for them and zoom them out to my very sane state, I'd do that.

If a pregnant person who wanted to be pregnant told me they were pregnant, I'd celebrate with them. Except I wouldn't play baby shower games because those are weird - unless this person was a very good friend and really, really begged me.

If someone were being sterilized or given a forced abortion against their will, I'd protest and try to help them. Because that's also bad - that is a lack of choice.

If someone decided to abort a fetus because the fetus was going to be disabled or gay or have some other unwanted characteristic, I'd have a stern talk with that person. Because I am against eugenics, right down to the root.

xcccccccccccccccccccccccc - (A note from my cat.)
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1046

PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
I wish people arguing about the happiness of the fetus would remember that pregnant people also have hearts and brains and sometimes multiple limbs. Also that situations exist which are different than your own.


Amen to this, and everything else you said.
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Yinello



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

STRIPEY FOR PRESIDENT
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LadySunami



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stripy knows what's up. Smile
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tricksterson



Joined: 18 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Stripey too much to wish the worst job in the world on him.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aww, you like me! Very Happy

I would be a glorious president, with sequined pants and a goal of not bothering with reelection unless my policies were really popular. The food I'd have made for me would be legendary. I doubt whitehouse chefs have ever dealt with a supertaster with sinusitis.
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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kung Fu Jesus wrote:
Heretical Rants wrote:

{img}


I know I'm pretty late, but OH MY GOD, YOU WERE RUNNING GHCi, I WANT TO HUG YOU <3


you can sometimes find me on the #haskell irc, too

usually I'll just be asking dumb questions
or pretending to know more than I actually do and hoping that someone will correct me if I get something wrong
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Kung Fu Jesus



Joined: 24 Sep 2011
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Location: Openin' a big can o' whoop-ass

PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heretical Rants wrote:
Kung Fu Jesus wrote:
Heretical Rants wrote:

{img}


I know I'm pretty late, but OH MY GOD, YOU WERE RUNNING GHCi, I WANT TO HUG YOU <3


you can sometimes find me on the #haskell irc, too

usually I'll just be asking dumb questions
or pretending to know more than I actually do and hoping that someone will correct me if I get something wrong


So... You're a brony, a not-so-experienced Haskeller, have a Tumblr, use Emacs and run Ubuntu? If you read Homestuck, we're almost the same person. =P
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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 5344
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I'm on maybe Act II of Homestuck, idk

I have a bookmark to whichever update I'm on, and a button that I sometimes hit that takes me to a random bookmark, so someday I will hit that button, land on that page, and continue reading where I left off. Someday. The laws of probability demand it. Unless I lose my bookmarks file, or quit hitting that button.



The Ubuntu is incidental (it was easy to install and configure at the time, and I am lazy). Most of the Ubuntu-esque stuff has gotten stripped away over time. Except for the purple terminals. Those can stay as long as they like.
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