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7-31-13 The Way They Used To Be.
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Ricia



Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel very sorry for Slick. I think Tat's been cruel to him. He made him the wannabe feminist doing it for rewards, and he gave him an evil side that nobody but the audience can see. He lost one of his best friends in a way he can't understand. If he can't be given the ability to see the Patriarchy I hope Tat will give him some moments of non-patronizing happiness. I hope he can hang out with his friends without talking about feminism. If he has to move on away from Nique, I want him to do so peacefully. I want him to rid himself of his demon side and come to terms with things.
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Valerie



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:12 pm    Post subject: Re: 7-30-13 I remember way back when Reply with quote

WellYesYouMay wrote:
I do feel kinda bad for Slick. The world has spun forward without him, and he's no longer on top to the degree he was. Now he needs to move forward with it. Is this the beginning of his further character development? I've got some fingers crossed.


This is basically everything I was going to say.

Though I'm curious to know if he means "I want to hang out with Monique like we used to" or "I want the gender roles back how they were because it was simpler." I'm thinking the former.
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Boing Fwip



Joined: 21 Jul 2013
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't necessarily want things back to the way they were. Just 'Nique (well, I also wouldn't mind seeing some neglected characters too). I know I'll catch flack for that, but before the Sisterhood I thought 'Nique was already a strong woman and better developed as a character. There's nothing wrong with being who you are. Monique went from oblivious to the Patriarchy yet still fighting authority to being bombarded by it and getting worn down. Keep the Sisterhood, just let 'Nique be 'Nique. Fun-loving, authority-defying, mostly happy 'Nique trumps unhappy Partiarchy-delivery-vehicle 'Nique. Only thing I'd keep about new 'Nique is her refusal to be merely an object on the poetry stage.
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3278

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolling Eyes
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1043

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 7-30-13 I remember way back when Reply with quote

Valerie wrote:
WellYesYouMay wrote:
I do feel kinda bad for Slick. The world has spun forward without him, and he's no longer on top to the degree he was. Now he needs to move forward with it. Is this the beginning of his further character development? I've got some fingers crossed.


This is basically everything I was going to say.

Though I'm curious to know if he means "I want to hang out with Monique like we used to" or "I want the gender roles back how they were because it was simpler." I'm thinking the former.


The rest of the panels do indicate that there's more than a little of the latter, too. Remember, Slick had built up his own view of his identity (delusional as it was) on the notions of being a pimp, mack-daddy, ladies-man. There's no room for even pretending at that kind of male identity in his life anymore, because that kind of identity absolutely requires that the women around him be subservient and secondary. (Not that they ever were, but now he's losing/has lost his ability to even pretend at it.)

What Slick needs to do is figure out who he is, without all the toxic masculine-over-performance posing.
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enchantedsleeper



Joined: 16 Jun 2013
Posts: 202
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I miss about "the way things used to be" is how Slick and Monique used to work together. Not often mind you, but it was awesome when it happened. That's why this comic is one of my favourite single pages of Sinfest and why I have a panel from it as my avatar. I miss when they were only sometimes at odds instead of constantly.

Unlike some though, I don't think Monique should revert back to the way she was in earlier comics just so she and Slick can be friends again. Instead, I really wish Slick would just get with the program and progress already instead of constantly falling back into his old self-centred, misogynistic rut. Like Arkhron said, narrative wise, his constant failures and refusal to learn from his mistakes are getting pretty repetitive. Also, the comic seems to imply that Slick is somehow a better person than his bedevilled "evil side" (at least that's what I assume, otherwise there wouldn't be a separation between them), but most of the time? I'm not seeing much difference. Maybe Evil Slick is less inhibited than Regular Slick, that's all. Other than that, well, I wish the comic would give us a bit more reason to root for Slick as a redeemable character.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1043

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder what that path of growth would look like. I don't think Slick has any clue how to even begin to grow.

What does he like? (besides porn)
What makes him feel good? (besides visualizing himself as a pimp)
What matters to him? (ooh, progress here, he does actually care about 'Nique, so that's something)
What is he good at? (there has to be something, and maybe he'll figure it out when he stops looking in all the wrong places)
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tricksterson



Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 436

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's no doubt that Slick has a long way to go and barely a clue how to get there, but then again I haven't seen any signs of Monique or anyone in the Sisterhood (except Nana, who did give hima cookie for trying) being willing to give him any pointers. Monique IIRC did try before her pre-Sisterhood days but at the time he was the one unwilling to try. Rather than Xanthe or Lil Sis I'd like to see him interacting with Curly who at least talks to Squig or maybe the apparently kinder Mercy.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3161
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
I wonder what that path of growth would look like. I don't think Slick has any clue how to even begin to grow.

What does he like? (besides porn)
What makes him feel good? (besides visualizing himself as a pimp)
What matters to him? (ooh, progress here, he does actually care about 'Nique, so that's something)
What is he good at? (there has to be something, and maybe he'll figure it out when he stops looking in all the wrong places)


I think this may be why I don't care about Slick, really. The stuff he cares about is really trivial. While he is experiencing some things I have sympathy for, he doesn't seem to have any real substance to him. All his art is about how he wants sex. All his dreams are about being a pimp. And all he ever seemed to do in his friendship with 'Nique was try to have sex or a romantic relationship with her. There is nothing else going on there, as far as I can see.

If Tat were to get rid of Crim, I'd be upset because there is already something to Crim worth developing and therefore worth saving. There isn't anything to Slick that I actually care about, so I don't feel any need whatsoever to hold on to him or to beg Tat to save him. There are so many other characters that are actually interesting and already show potential without a complete overhaul.

Since Slick appears here to stay, I'd love to see some development of his character - but that development will probably be very slow, as all development in Sinfest is, and I'll be content to wait and see what happens.
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It just echoes how boring people like that (and they exist) are.
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Thenadathor



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

slick as a character exists, I think lately, to show us the perspective of people who are simultaneously part of the problem and humanized people who genuinely want to love and be loved, deep down. If slick wasn't humanized, this comic wouldn't be a story, it would be a polemic.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3161
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, it would be a comic about the other characters who are humanized. The story really doesn't need Slick at all, because there are a lot of stories that Tat could follow and still make this comic.
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Thenadathor



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you didn't address my point. what i''m saying is that slick as an antagonist serves the story better by being ambivalent. My claim is that a story benefits from antagonists who are conflicted compared with ones who are cartoonishly one-dimensional. Thats why the arc where the devil quits his job was so compelling. Or, are you claiming not having an antagonizing force would be preferred? I dunno, would that just be a bunch of people being passive aggressive towards an unseen enemy?
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6027
Location: California

PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm not sure what comic you're reading but in the one i'm reading, Slick is not an antagonistic force at all.

once upon a time there was a lengthy arc in which Slick went around in a gray hoodie and tried to live on the straight and narrow. that was about as complicated as his character ever got; as i recall, it just sort of faded away and Slick slowly turned back into a filed-down version of his old self.

i guess if you look at the grand sweep of Sinfest's fourteen years, Slick failing to live on the straight and narrow and eventually regressing back to boring slob shows that when you dig deep down, Slick has his redeeming features, but they are grafted onto the core of a boring slob. so if he's ever going to get out of this rut, he'll have to stop being a boring slob. unlike Nique, that means he'd have to fundamentally change who he is.

which isn't necessary bad. current Slick is the boring slob, after all. but if it happens anytime soon, it would be even more jarring than anything the sisterhood arc has thrown out there so far. add to that Tat's glacial writing pace and it looks to me like Slick is going to be in boring slob mode for a looooooong time.

and i'm cool with that, because Slick is a boring slob, which means there's more interesting characters to turn to anyways.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3161
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Devil is a much bigger antagonist, so Slick isn't needed for that job.

Slick is not the center of the story anymore in any way. He doesn't need to be.
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