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2013-08-09: That's My Boy
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Ennis



Joined: 09 Jun 2013
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Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've seen him looking at old photos of Lil'E in the past. I see him as an abusive/neglectful father, and it's not exactly uncommon for those kind of people to still expect their children to love/respect them even if they treat them like crap. I don't think Big D actually really does love Lil'E (yeah, Crying or Very sad ), he just wanted him to be like himself and then when he wasn't he was a disappointment. Even when pre-Lethe Lil'E was trying to act like him he didn't care because he somehow hadn't met the standard of whatever the Devil considered to be necessary for acknowledging his existence. But I think now he's annoyed because Lil'E isn't even trying any more, something Big D sort of expects even though he didn't acknowledge him.
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Valerie



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh shit, I think I just had a realization.

Lilly is trans. Not MtF, but DtA (demon to angel). The Devil, being the leader of the patriarchy, can't accept that his son is actually his daughter (metaphorically), and is disappointed after watching God and Jesus doing typically father/son activities because he feels he can't do those activities with his trans angel son.

Or maybe I'm putting meaning where there isn't any, BUT IT'S A PERFECT METAPHOR.
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Thenadathor



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if, moving forward, Tat is going to address that it has been previously indicated in the story that the devil doesn't necessarily want or even like his job. There was an arc where he basically quit for a while. That reversal was really entertaining, how God reacted, etc etc.
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Rune



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thenadathor wrote:
I wonder if, moving forward, Tat is going to address that it has been previously indicated in the story that the devil doesn't necessarily want or even like his job. There was an arc where he basically quit for a while. That reversal was really entertaining, how God reacted, etc etc.


Only very marginally related, but incredibly awesome:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/miracle-of-sound/5286-Jokers-Song-Batman-Arkham-City
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valerie wrote:
Oh shit, I think I just had a realization.

Lilly is trans. Not MtF, but DtA (demon to angel). The Devil, being the leader of the patriarchy, can't accept that his son is actually his daughter (metaphorically), and is disappointed after watching God and Jesus doing typically father/son activities because he feels he can't do those activities with his trans angel son.

Or maybe I'm putting meaning where there isn't any, BUT IT'S A PERFECT METAPHOR.


I don't think it's perfect. you might say, "Hey, there are similarities here," but I don't think it's good to just say, "Hey, he's trans. Though not in the actual way trans people are trans." This is something different.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sammich wrote:
Leohan wrote:
Good catch, J. Now let's see you throw it back!

I would have thought Big D. didn't even care anymore about Lil'E


Same. What did he expect when he chose to be an absentee father?


i don't know that we actually know that. we've seen scenes between him and li'l e's mom, and we know that ultimately she was raising him as a single mother - but do we really know if big D left her, or she left him? she may have considered him a bad influence on their son (well, duh!), and insisted he stay away. which might explain why the devil acted like he knew nothing about him, even when li'l e was hero-worshipping him.
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So maybe she never actually lived with Dman and instead Li'l E and she were living there?
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enchantedsleeper



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ennis wrote:
Even when pre-Lethe Lil'E was trying to act like him he didn't care because he somehow hadn't met the standard of whatever the Devil considered to be necessary for acknowledging his existence.


Man, I keep forgetting that Li'l E had a pre-Lethe self. It's been a while since I reread the archives xD
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mouse



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
So maybe she never actually lived with Dman and instead Li'l E and she were living there?


well, it would make total sense that the devil wouldn't marry the mother of his child - even though he clearly took an interest.
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Ennis



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
Valerie wrote:
Oh shit, I think I just had a realization.

Lilly is trans. Not MtF, but DtA (demon to angel). The Devil, being the leader of the patriarchy, can't accept that his son is actually his daughter (metaphorically), and is disappointed after watching God and Jesus doing typically father/son activities because he feels he can't do those activities with his trans angel son.

Or maybe I'm putting meaning where there isn't any, BUT IT'S A PERFECT METAPHOR.


I don't think it's perfect. you might say, "Hey, there are similarities here," but I don't think it's good to just say, "Hey, he's trans. Though not in the actual way trans people are trans." This is something different.

Yeah I'm also gonna have to go with Stripey here, it's not really the same. It's only the same in terms of the whole "learning to accept other people's differences and let them be who they want to be" theme which is basically applicable to anything not-mainstream.

mouse wrote:
i don't know that we actually know that. we've seen scenes between him and li'l e's mom, and we know that ultimately she was raising him as a single mother - but do we really know if big D left her, or she left him? she may have considered him a bad influence on their son (well, duh!), and insisted he stay away. which might explain why the devil acted like he knew nothing about him, even when li'l e was hero-worshipping him.

Hmm, Lil'E doesn't actually remember Dman being his father though, right? I get the feeling he'll realise eventually what with all these flashbacks but right now he just seems to think the Devil was his hero. I'd say he didn't consciously know Dman was his father when he was sucking up to him pre-Lethe either, but subconsciously knew and that's why he was so weirdly obsessive about the whole thing.

(Admittedly that's a lot of justification for Tat simply retconning the evil fanboy into being Dman's son, which I'm 90% sure is what actually happened)
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tricksterson



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Dman is dissapointed with Lily he has only himself to blame. he ignored him at every turn.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ennis wrote:
(Admittedly that's a lot of justification for Tat simply retconning the evil fanboy into being Dman's son, which I'm 90% sure is what actually happened)


feh - why worry about reality when we can tie ourselves in knots trying to explain it all?
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
Ennis wrote:
(Admittedly that's a lot of justification for Tat simply retconning the evil fanboy into being Dman's son, which I'm 90% sure is what actually happened)


feh - why worry about reality when we can tie ourselves in knots trying to explain it all?

See, I don't think it should technically count as a retcon unless the past is changed. If you have an unexplained past, then its not a retcon since it was never explained to begin with. As I see it, retcons are where you change a story's past in order to remove continuity conflicts in the present. In the Case of Lil'E, since his past wasn't filled in, I don't think viewing it as a retcon is accurate.
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think being able to straddle the line between vagueness and explicitness is an underappreciated skill. Tat has some very innovative ideas, which mix well with the vagueness that lets the audience contemplate what it all means.

That's one of the things I appreciate about Anne Rice's writing. I think she's actually a pretty awful writer in many respects, but the worldbuilding for the books I read was pretty compelling - a lot of it I'm sure was due to all the things she left out.
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Istancow



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I think that D-Man actually does sincerely (if secretly) love Lil'E, and that what he's really disappointed about is the fact that he never had any relationship with his son.
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