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2013-08-13: Porn Script Readings 7
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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 5191
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
if anything, bronies tend to get more upset at male slash pairings than anything else


I don't remember ever seeing or hearing any complaints about it

but please don't link me
I don't want to know the specifics
especially if it's in opposition to braemac
especially if it's in opposition to OTP
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure there are people who are upset about characters being stereotyped as gay automatically, but all I've run across are folks who feel entitled to have all their favorites be automatically heterosexual. They feel hurt anyone has to impinge on their territory with some trait they don't share.

Nowadays I just watch the show and avoid the fandom - but luckily for me there are awesome bronies not full of shit in most of the places I go. My house, for instance, has 66% bronie content.
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EVERYWHERE I GO


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MerchManDan



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
It happens in the My Little Pony fandom, with many a guy upset at anyone who thinks of Rainbow Dash as gay.

...except everybody thinks Rainbow Dash IS gay. And if she is, that'd be OK.
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LadySunami



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
LadySunami wrote:
We need an epilogue with Gay Guy's boyfriend showing up dressed as Batman. Slick would need to awkwardly leave the room durring the resulting makeout session...and would probably go home and watch lesbian porn...

tat definitely needs to do this because that would be so slick.

Alas, it has yet to happen. A shame too, as those two are cute. ♥

Hekateras wrote:
It's also about misogyny in fan communities. Since the vast majority of slash and "shipping" (which usually involves slash because people use the characters they like, and when 95% of any typical given movie cast ist male because of representation issues... yeah) communities are female, intersection with the male parts of the fandom tends to involve a lot of them sneering at the slash fans and/or being disgusted that these damn shippers take everything out of context and MY SUPERHERO IS NOT GAY DAMMIT GO AND HAVE YOUR PERVERSE SEXUAL FANTASIES SOMEWHERE ELSE.

I see this on Tumblr all the time and the superhero genre is particularly badly off. Even though men are still served and placated with every turn by *canon* events, artwork and stories that over-sexualies the objects of their preferred sexuality and have giant blockbuster movies made that are basically nothing but elaborate 14-year-old-boy wet dreams come true, the moment someone depicts *their* gender in a way that makes them uncomfortable, it's the goddamn end of the world.

To be fair, some people *cough*me*cough* also get pissed at slash shippers for the whole seme/uke thing... I mean if their personalities actually more or less fit those I don't care, but I hate it when slash writers/artists force them into the stereotypical roles that don't fit their personality at all. Not every pairing needs a "dominant" partner and a "submissive." I personally prefer more-or-less equal pairings, be they gay or straight.

*Marik Ishtar was a murderer, a thief and the head of an international crime organization damn it! Add that to his love for mind control and screwing with people, and there is no way he is a cute, innocent "uke." ~Signed an angry thiefshipper that hates ukefication.
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Hekateras



Joined: 31 May 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LadySunami wrote:
mouse wrote:
LadySunami wrote:
We need an epilogue with Gay Guy's boyfriend showing up dressed as Batman. Slick would need to awkwardly leave the room durring the resulting makeout session...and would probably go home and watch lesbian porn...

tat definitely needs to do this because that would be so slick.

Alas, it has yet to happen. A shame too, as those two are cute. ♥

Hekateras wrote:
It's also about misogyny in fan communities. Since the vast majority of slash and "shipping" (which usually involves slash because people use the characters they like, and when 95% of any typical given movie cast ist male because of representation issues... yeah) communities are female, intersection with the male parts of the fandom tends to involve a lot of them sneering at the slash fans and/or being disgusted that these damn shippers take everything out of context and MY SUPERHERO IS NOT GAY DAMMIT GO AND HAVE YOUR PERVERSE SEXUAL FANTASIES SOMEWHERE ELSE.

I see this on Tumblr all the time and the superhero genre is particularly badly off. Even though men are still served and placated with every turn by *canon* events, artwork and stories that over-sexualies the objects of their preferred sexuality and have giant blockbuster movies made that are basically nothing but elaborate 14-year-old-boy wet dreams come true, the moment someone depicts *their* gender in a way that makes them uncomfortable, it's the goddamn end of the world.

To be fair, some people *cough*me*cough* also get pissed at slash shippers for the whole seme/uke thing... I mean if their personalities actually more or less fit those I don't care, but I hate it when slash writers/artists force them into the stereotypical roles that don't fit their personality at all. Not every pairing needs a "dominant" partner and a "submissive." I personally prefer more-or-less equal pairings, be they gay or straight.

*Marik Ishtar was a murderer, a thief and the head of an international crime organization damn it! Add that to his love for mind control and screwing with people, and there is no way he is a cute, innocent "uke." ~Signed an angry thiefshipper that hates ukefication.


That actually sounds like an artifact of misogyny and patriarchal gender roles, now that I think about it. Insistence that one character in a gay relationship be dominant and the other submissive sounds an awful lot like clueless straight people asking a homosexual couple who the "man" in the relationship is and who the "woman" is. In other words, insisting on rigid patriarchal gender roles wherein one partner MUST be in power relative to the other. Only in this case it is a case of internalised misogyny, since it is, for the most part, women re-enforcing the same harmful stereotypes because they don't know any better.

Besides, it's not like straight couples aren't skewed and have their characterisation butchered for the sake of a romance - only it's usually the woman who is forced to change drastically for that (often by making her vulnerable and helpless even if she used to be badass), and it happens with canon mainstream media instead of somebody's quiet Tumblr slash blog. So your post arguably has elements of a double standard, i.e. expecting the female demographic's chosen wish-fulfillment pairings and sexual fantasies to be more strict in terms of honouring the characterisation than you expect of the male demographic's wish-fulfillment.

The bronie example leaves a bad taste in my mouth these days, btw, because it's just another example of male fans of a thing aimed at females being seen as special and given a *special name* and being praised for being open-minded, whereas women in that same situation (to take the superhero comic fandoms, for example) are usually dismissed as "fake fans" without a second thought.
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Yinello



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Huge slash fan here. I really hate the seme/uke bullshit that does get used a lot everywhere. The uke is also often presented as very feminine, so que more anger from me.

Luckily there are plenty of slash writers who don't give into that patriarchal nonsense and write excellently.
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hekateras wrote:
That actually sounds like an artifact of misogyny and patriarchal gender roles, now that I think about it. Insistence that one character in a gay relationship be dominant and the other submissive sounds an awful lot like clueless straight people asking a homosexual couple who the "man" in the relationship is and who the "woman" is. In other words, insisting on rigid patriarchal gender roles wherein one partner MUST be in power relative to the other. Only in this case it is a case of internalised misogyny, since it is, for the most part, women re-enforcing the same harmful stereotypes because they don't know any better.


I'm pretty sure we just call this heteronormativity, and sadly many people think actual real live gay people are all in such relationships. They won't hear otherwise, and will spend an inordinate amount of time trying to divine who is top and who is bottom by scrutinizing the couple's behavior.
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just never understood how rigid gender roles could be appealing enough to inflict on same sex relationships, too. They're seriously bad enough on their own.
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Hekateras



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
Hekateras wrote:
That actually sounds like an artifact of misogyny and patriarchal gender roles, now that I think about it. Insistence that one character in a gay relationship be dominant and the other submissive sounds an awful lot like clueless straight people asking a homosexual couple who the "man" in the relationship is and who the "woman" is. In other words, insisting on rigid patriarchal gender roles wherein one partner MUST be in power relative to the other. Only in this case it is a case of internalised misogyny, since it is, for the most part, women re-enforcing the same harmful stereotypes because they don't know any better.


I'm pretty sure we just call this heteronormativity, and sadly many people think actual real live gay people are all in such relationships. They won't hear otherwise, and will spend an inordinate amount of time trying to divine who is top and who is bottom by scrutinizing the couple's behavior.


...I guess we could just call that heteronormativity, yeah. XD (Though the pedant in me wishes to point out that that's more of a blanket term that can be applied to all sorts of misconceptions about LGBT+ relationships, from the insistence on penetrative sex as the only "real" sex to assigning rigid gender roles as above to flat out denying they exist.)
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