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2013-08-17 - MAN O' FEELY FEELS
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Onimaru



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 187

PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Idk, partly I agree because I think he should be speaking up but I also know how scary it is to speak up in these sort of situations. My interpretation has pretty much always been that Crim didn't really agree with Slick and Squig but due to social anxiety and fear of them ditching him (especially when he wasn't with Fusch) was too scared to say anything. If he's anything like me he's sitting there thinking about how best to call people out without making them hate him, then by the time he's worked up the courage the conversation has moved on to something different and the whole thing would just be awkward, so he just stares at the ground and hopes other people somehow pick up on his discomfort and change their behaviour.

I've tried a few times to say something when people have said something ___ist in pretty much the most polite way possible and I usually just get ignored or brushed off in this way that implies "if you continue with this we will consider you the fun police and begin to dislike you". That is, like I said above, if I don't completely miss the window of opportunity altogether. I just empathise with Crim's position is what I'm saying.


'Come on, it's just a joke.' , 'No seriously, his girlfriend really is that bad.(And by association so are all women)' , 'No no, I mean, I don't really DISLIKE Black People, just you know the one's that take out all their problems on White's like they have it all that bad.'

Sound familiar? The stance of 'I'm not the one with the problem, they are, and I'm going to bash them as hard as I can, call it a joke and take comfort that I'm surrounded by others that will support me and not judge me.' That gets all offended when you call them on their shit.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3429
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe one day Fuschia and he will talk about it. For instance, she could be ranting about something sexist that just happened - and then we could get his opinion. Or Slick or Squig might bring up Fuschia's old job to her, asking why she doesn't go back to doing that, because she's boring now.
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Ennis



Joined: 09 Jun 2013
Posts: 817
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Onimaru wrote:
Quote:

Idk, partly I agree because I think he should be speaking up but I also know how scary it is to speak up in these sort of situations. My interpretation has pretty much always been that Crim didn't really agree with Slick and Squig but due to social anxiety and fear of them ditching him (especially when he wasn't with Fusch) was too scared to say anything. If he's anything like me he's sitting there thinking about how best to call people out without making them hate him, then by the time he's worked up the courage the conversation has moved on to something different and the whole thing would just be awkward, so he just stares at the ground and hopes other people somehow pick up on his discomfort and change their behaviour.

I've tried a few times to say something when people have said something ___ist in pretty much the most polite way possible and I usually just get ignored or brushed off in this way that implies "if you continue with this we will consider you the fun police and begin to dislike you". That is, like I said above, if I don't completely miss the window of opportunity altogether. I just empathise with Crim's position is what I'm saying.


'Come on, it's just a joke.' , 'No seriously, his girlfriend really is that bad.(And by association so are all women)' , 'No no, I mean, I don't really DISLIKE Black People, just you know the one's that take out all their problems on White's like they have it all that bad.'

Sound familiar? The stance of 'I'm not the one with the problem, they are, and I'm going to bash them as hard as I can, call it a joke and take comfort that I'm surrounded by others that will support me and not judge me.' That gets all offended when you call them on their shit.


Uh, I'm not really sure what you're actually replying to in there. Are you referring to me or Crim? I agreed that he should have said something especially now, but he wasn't as aware of things in the past to properly articulate his discomfort. Obviously racists/sexists/__ists are the ones with the problem, I never said any differently.

Admittedly Crim's not in the same situation as I am, but some days I just do not have the energy to engage in breaking down every single problematic thing someone says in my vicinity. I'm dealing with internal issues, uni and with being misgendered since I'm not out to most people, then still getting misgendered/pronouned/named by people I AM out to half the time, hearing transphobic/cissexist stuff that I'm too terrified to address because it would either require outing myself or having to engage in this kind of "you don't know this but you're actually disagreeing with my existence" which is pretty upsetting. It's not black and white and I can't be some kind of social justice crusader 24/7, but if it makes you feel any better I hate myself for every time I don't say anything.
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fritterdonut



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
Posts: 1188
Location: Hedonism

PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ennis wrote:
Hekateras wrote:
The fact that Crim stays silent in BOTH panels where he appears (including the one where he and Squig are asked a direct question and only Squig answers, loudly enough for both of them) does suggest that he's a little bit on the uncomfortable/unwilling side, to me.

Of course, this raises an interesting subject, because silence, while better than outright compliance, is still functionally the same. We, the readers, have known Crim for hundreds of strips, and even with this often omniscient insight into his personality we still can't tell for sure what he's feeling here. Were I a woman overhearing this conversation, I would definitely not distinguish much between the people telling outright misogynistic stories or jokes and the people laughing or sitting silently.

Idk, partly I agree because I think he should be speaking up but I also know how scary it is to speak up in these sort of situations. My interpretation has pretty much always been that Crim didn't really agree with Slick and Squig but due to social anxiety and fear of them ditching him (especially when he wasn't with Fusch) was too scared to say anything. If he's anything like me he's sitting there thinking about how best to call people out without making them hate him, then by the time he's worked up the courage the conversation has moved on to something different and the whole thing would just be awkward, so he just stares at the ground and hopes other people somehow pick up on his discomfort and change their behaviour.

I've tried a few times to say something when people have said something ___ist in pretty much the most polite way possible and I usually just get ignored or brushed off in this way that implies "if you continue with this we will consider you the fun police and begin to dislike you". That is, like I said above, if I don't completely miss the window of opportunity altogether. I just empathise with Crim's position is what I'm saying.




Totally the expression of an unwilling participant.

Let's not forget that when the resistance was originally brought in, it was brought in in a universe where matriarchy was a thing and robots were being sent after them with directions to 'de-ball'.
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Ennis



Joined: 09 Jun 2013
Posts: 817
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait, didn't you say that was in the "Matriarchy" alternative universe? Soo that isn't the same Crim, it's him in Tat's weird-ass badly gender-flipped "men are oppressed yet somehow we retain the same misogynist insults" world, which to be quite frank I hated seeing because it showed how terribly he understood things way back when. So what are you trying to prove with alt universe Crim being a part of a badly conceived resistance force in the Matriarchy-verse? If you went by that instead of the majority of his main universe characterisation you could also argue that he likes gun/weapons too.
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fritterdonut



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ennis wrote:
Wait, didn't you say that was in the "Matriarchy" alternative universe? Soo that isn't the same Crim, it's him in Tat's weird-ass badly gender-flipped "men are oppressed yet somehow we retain the same misogynist insults" world, which to be quite frank I hated seeing because it showed how terribly he understood things way back when. So what are you trying to prove with alt universe Crim being a part of a badly conceived resistance force in the Matriarchy-verse? If you went by that instead of the majority of his main universe characterisation you could also argue that he likes gun/weapons too.


Given that the resistance now appears to exist in the main Sinfest world, resplendent in the same uniforms with the same members, I'd say that the separation between alt universes (at least as far as characters goes) is tentative.

This is Sinfest we're talking about, so it's not like alternate universes are cut-and-dried different and don't effect one another.

I'm not saying Crim agrees with the resistance's aims now, but I'd say he did before, assuming it's the same Crim because of reasons.
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Ennis



Joined: 09 Jun 2013
Posts: 817
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fritterdonut wrote:

I'm not saying Crim agrees with the resistance's aims now, but I'd say he did before, assuming it's the same Crim because of reasons.

I'd disagree it's the same Crim, since the whole point of those things were that they were in an alt-universe "Matriarchy". It would be like judging Xanthe or any of the other feminists to have a history of being an oppressor because that alt-universe existed and women were allegedly dominant in it. Even though it was shittily done the point of the resistance in the alt universe was to fight against a more powerful enemy. Whereas in this comic it isn't even called a resistance (and I don't think there ever has been in main-universe Sinfest) it's just "the man symbol" and Slick taking advantage of what he thinks is going to be a captive audience to whinge about women. He's not even organising anything, unless you count the campfire and weenies.

Oh I found two strips that seems to describe what the in-universe "resistance" actually is. Basically it's just Slick, Squig and Crim being silly and doing friendship things in a "manly" way.

Could argue that Crim should have said something about the porn, but although we see Slick buying some magazines we don't see them actually looking at them. Judging by Crim's previous characterisation as "oh my holding hands how debauched a thought" it wouldn't be a stretch to say he left the looking to Crim and Squig though, too flustered to say anything about it anyway.

I think Crim has a juice haha. They basically just play cards and watch what appears to be a scifi/action movie judging by the symbols.

Maybe there were very early on strips when he was on their side with sexist stuff but honestly I cannot recall it.
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