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WheelsOfConfusion
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 13953
Location: Unknown Kaddath
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 Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Oh yeah? Well imagine how much better it would have ended if that teacher had been able to whip out a gun! Everybody would have had ice cream and freedom! |
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fritterdonut
Joined: 24 Jul 2012
Posts: 1437
Location: Hedonism
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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I'm very confused as to what happened here. He walks into a school, says he isn't there to harm any of the staff or students, but says he wants to talk to a police officer, isn't afraid to die, and tells the secretary in the school office to call a TV station.
It would appear that he wanted to fight the police, but chose to do so at a school for publicity reasons?
On top of that, the gunman apparently was an ex-felon, but was known to babysit the neighborhood kids and had recently gone through a house fire. Seems like he just snapped.
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Him
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 4360
Location: On edge
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| fritterdonut wrote: |
Interesting article. Of course, some would argue that we might hear of their failures, but we might never know the scale or success of their other operations. Ditto for just about every other intelligence and counterintelligence bureau in the world.
Also, I don't know if MI5 was involved in this case. Seeing as they say the destruction of the laptops was overseen by people from the GCHQ, another intelligence bureau that handles SigInt that as far as I know is separate from the MI5. |
Having read declassified documents from SÄPO, the Swedish equivalent, conspiracy theorists and incompetence seem to be a common feature. It makes sense, especially in the Cold War years, as in conspiracy theorist thinking comes natural for an organization operating essentially as a secret conspiracy. As in "We have no proof the KGB are behind this. This just proves how good they are at hiding their tracks."
And as the article outlines this also lead some MI5 members to assume that when failing this must be because of a further conspiracy inside the organization itself and/or the government.
And of course any time a secret organization succeeds, as in helping Pinochet overthrow the Popular Front government in Chile or as was recently admitted by the CIA, the coup against Mossadeq in Iran, this just confirms their reasoning. Conspiracies work. Social forces, economics, the agency of mass movements all that comes to be seen as secondary.
This kind of view, by the way, is often replicated by some people on the left with their origin in the pro-Soviet camp. Everything becomes a CIA conspiracy.
No doubt secret organizations do secret things with secret results but to assume it is successful is pretty much specious reasoning.
In fact those kind of organizations have a very strong incentive to lie on those issues. That we even hear about their failures and incompetence is not proof that they must be really great at hiding their successes.
No what it does is prove their incompetence. This latest nonsense with physically breaking a server in order to destroy those documents is in fact further proof of that.
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CTrees
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 3772
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:24 am Post subject: |
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Bradley Manning got sentenced to 35yrs, eligible for parole after one-third is served. With time served and other factors related to harsh treatment, he is eligible for release in eight years. An automatic appellate review has also been triggered. Given that there was a zero percent chance he was getting acquitted, this is probably near the best possible outcome for him
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yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation. |
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fritterdonut
Joined: 24 Jul 2012
Posts: 1437
Location: Hedonism
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| Him wrote: | | No what it does is prove their incompetence. This latest nonsense with physically breaking a server in order to destroy those documents is in fact further proof of that. |
I doubt they actually thought they could destroy the files by destroying the Macbook they were stored on. I'm pretty sure it was simply to send a message of "Stop publishing leaks or else". Seeing as they've actually stated that's also the reason they stopped Miranda at Heathrow and interrogated him for 9 hours, to send a message to people with the leaked information.
On that note:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/20/theresa-may-advanced-notice-david-miranda
| Quote: | The home secretary has confirmed that she was given advanced notice of the decision by the police to detain David Miranda, the partner of the Guardian journalist Glenn Greenwald, at Heathrow airport.
As part of an offensive by the government to justify the detention, the home secretary praised the police action on the grounds that Miranda possessed sensitive documents which could help terrorists and "lead to a loss of lives".
May told the BBC: "I was briefed in advance that there was a possibility of a port stop, of the sort that took place. But we live in a country where those decisions as to whether or not to stop somebody or arrest somebody are not for me as home secretary. They are for the police to take. That's absolutely right that they have their operational independence. Long may that continue." |
| Quote: | | The remarks by May followed confirmation by Downing Street that the prime minister was also given advanced notice that police planned to detain Miranda. A No 10 source said: "We were kept abreast in the usual way. We do not direct police investigations." |
Annnnnnnnnd
| CTrees wrote: | | Bradley Manning got sentenced to 35yrs, eligible for parole after one-third is served. With time served and other factors related to harsh treatment, he is eligible for release in eight years. An automatic appellate review has also been triggered. Given that there was a zero percent chance he was getting acquitted, this is probably near the best possible outcome for him |
I'm honestly surprised that they didn't throw the book at him.
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TIAB
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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stripeypants
Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 4741
Location: Land of the Grumpuses
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| Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:00 am Post subject: |
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NSA spies do enough stalking of citizens they are romantically interested in that the NSA has given it a name: LOVEINT
http://boingboing.net/2013/08/24/loveint-nsa-spooks-illegally.html
I'm sure this was going to be in that conversation we were all totally going to have even if information on abuses hadn't been leaked. And hey, it's not like anyone could foresee abuses like this happening when giving an agency free reign to trawl every bit of information about everyone.
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Mindslicer
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 2545
Location: North of the People's Republic of Massachusetts
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| Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| I'm sure this is one of those Bush administration atrocities the Planet Healer was going to fix, but give the guy a break; he just got a new puppy. |
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Monkey Mcdermott
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3352
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| Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| Mindslicer wrote: | | I'm sure this is one of those Bush administration atrocities the Planet Healer was going to fix, but give the guy a break; he just got a new puppy. |
Agamemnon was much better at this than you.
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Dogen
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 11274
Location: PDX
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| Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:55 am Post subject: |
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Apparently they also listened in on UN conversations, which is, of course, illegal. It doesn't seem to bother some people - "spying is what they're supposed to do" - but damn if we don't already look like the assholes of the world.
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"Worse comes to worst, my people come first, but my tribe lives on every country on earth. I’ll do anything to protect them from hurt, the human race is what I serve." - Baba Brinkman |
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Mercian
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 86
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Darqcyde
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 11853
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.
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| Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| stripeypants wrote: | NSA spies do enough stalking of citizens they are romantically interested in that the NSA has given it a name: LOVEINT
http://boingboing.net/2013/08/24/loveint-nsa-spooks-illegally.html
I'm sure this was going to be in that conversation we were all totally going to have even if information on abuses hadn't been leaked. And hey, it's not like anyone could foresee abuses like this happening when giving an agency free reign to trawl every bit of information about everyone. |
A friend of mine, her mom used to do this, though she's hardly NSA. She was a bank teller and looked for guys with large bank accounts and only their name on the account
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Darqcyde
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 11853
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:13 am Post subject: |
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Fuckin Syria:
Snipers shoot at UN chemical weapons team in Syria
AFP - 1 hour ago
| Quote: | Snipers shot at a UN team set to inspect the site of a suspected deadly chemical weapons attack on Monday, further ratcheting up tensions as the West warned of possible military action against Damascus. A defiant Syrian President Bashar al-Assad declared that any strike by the US and its allies would be doomed to failure and key ally Moscow said it could have dangerous consequences for the entire region.
A UN spokesman said unidentified snipers shot at the UN experts looking into allegations of a chemical attack near Damascus last week that the Syrian opposition claimed killed hundreds of civilians. The attack forced them to suspend their inspection but no injuries were reported, said spokesman Martin Nesirky.
"The first vehicle of the chemical weapons investigation team was deliberately shot at multiple times by unidentified snipers," he said.
The attack came as the West appeared to be moving closer to launching a military response over last Wednesday's attack near Damascus, which shocked the world after grisly pictures emerged of dead children with horrific injuries. Britain said the West could act even without full UN Security Council backing, with China and Moscow likely to boycott any resolution backing a military strike.
Washington and its allies have pointed the finger of blame at Assad's regime for the alleged attack, the latest atrocity in a conflict that has claimed the lives of more than 100,000 people since March 2011.
Assad, in an interview with a Russian newspaper published Monday, angrily denied the accusations as an "insult to common sense" and said any military action was doomed to failure. "The United States faces failure just like in all the previous wars they waged," he said.
A senior Syrian security official told AFP the regime was ready to face "all scenarios". "Western threats of strikes against Syria are part of the psychological and political pressure against Syria, but in any case we are ready to face all scenarios," the official said.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov warned his US counterpart John Kerry of the "extremely dangerous consequences of a possible new military intervention for the whole Middle East and North Africa region".
Syrian authorities had approved the UN inspection of the site in Ghouta east of Damascus on Sunday, but US officials said it was too little, too late, arguing that persistent shelling there in recent days had "corrupted" the site. Mortar shells also hit a mosque in the centre of Damascus on Monday, the Syrian news agency SANA said, blaming "terrorists", its term for rebel fighters.
The international community has long been divided over how to respond to the conflict, with Russia and China repeatedly blocking UN Security Council resolutions. |
Full Story: http://news.yahoo.com/damascus-gives-green-light-un-chemical-arms-probe-131621829.html
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mouse
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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Location: under the bed
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Him
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 4360
Location: On edge
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| Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:21 am Post subject: |
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Yes, invading a country with deep sectarian conflicts brewing between Sunnis and Shias and an insurgent, well-funded and heavily armed sunni islamist movement and Iran and Hezbollah waiting at the border seems like a great idea. What could possibly go wrong? Especially on the pre-text of an undisputed fact like Saddam having WMD's...oh I'm sorry I mean like saying it's 100% certain who carried out the sarin attack. Now I am not saying the regime haven't done horrible crimes against their people already, I have about as fond feelings for the butcherer Assad as I had for Hussein. But how did the Iraq invasion work out? And what if it turns out that the sarin gas was carried out by anyone other then the regime? Not saying it's beyond Assad to do something like this, but at the very least there's a little doubt here. I mean I'm sure the gulf-monarchies could, at least in theory, provide Jabbhat Al-Nusra with the missile capabilities. I'm not saying I believe this to be a fact, just that I am little sceptical accepting the "intelligence community" at their word as a pre-text for war considering, well...the last time this happened.
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A cigarette is the perfect type of a perfect pleasure. It is exquisite, and it leaves one unsatisfied. What more can one want? ~Oscar Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray |
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