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Sexual Orientation, Gender Identity, and the rest
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried finding a sparkly rainbow merkin. Apparenty that is an untapped market.
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
I tried finding a sparkly rainbow merkin. Apparently that is an untapped market.


they're available custom-made
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TIAB



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Germany officially recognizes third gender
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bravo Germany.

Though, I did quirk a brow when it said "giving children virtually no say" which... what. Where does the virtually come in, exactly? I really want to see the case that made them feel the need to imply newborns somehow have even the tiniest bit of a say in this.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe they mean literally. Literally was recently hanged to mean virtually, so maybe now virtually is stepping in to mean literally.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/15/living/literally-definition
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lostinube



Joined: 08 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Metafilter thread about Chelsea Manning:
http://www.metafilter.com/131238/You-see-a-lot-of-people-doing-whatever-they-can
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
Maybe they mean literally. Literally was recently hanged to mean virtually, so maybe now virtually is stepping in to mean literally.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/15/living/literally-definition


Seems like a lot of hype from journalists who don't know the definition of the word 'hyperbole'-- it must've been a slow news day or something.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lostinube wrote:
Metafilter thread about Chelsea Manning:
http://www.metafilter.com/131238/You-see-a-lot-of-people-doing-whatever-they-can

Yeah, it's only really just starting to get some attention. I cringe at the thought of how this is going to come up in next year's election cycle. It's one thing if something is 'an issue', it's a whole lot messier when it becomes 'a political issue'.
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Varthonai



Joined: 19 Jul 2013
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been going back and forth internally about whether or not to open up and pour out all my dumb personal drama in this thread, and the main thing stopping me is that I don't want to derail a serious discussion about Chelsea Manning. The first post seems to indicate that we can talk about whatever we want in this thread but I can hardly pretend that I take precedence over her. : /

I just thought it might be safe because there's been no continuation of the Manning discussion in more than a week.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is a pretty open forum about gender identity and sexual orientation, so go for it. there wasn't much of a discussion going on anyway, and what discussion there was died off pretty quickly.
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean, this isn't really the Chelsea Manning thread, nor is it the "oh my god CNN is being horrible and insisting on using the wrong name and pronouns" thread, nor is it the "yarrr, those prisons had better get her the treatment she needs" thread, and it certainly isn't the "why is she even going to prison in the first place a;lkdsjf;lakds this is dumb" thread

those things have a place here, yeah
except maybe the last one, though I doubt anyone would complain about the tangent

but

y'know

it was started for personal stuff

so why

why would you worry about talking about personal stuff

even if the Chelsea Manning discussion was actually going anywhere in this thread, discussions don't have to happen linearly in forums

posts stick around for a long time, and multiple conversations can be going on in a given thread all at once with no real negative consequences for anyone involved
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Varthonai



Joined: 19 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heretical Rants wrote:
why would you worry about talking about personal stuff


Well, partly for the reasons I already said, and partly because I guess I'm still of two minds about opening up to strangers about my sexual and gender identity issues, even though I feel like I need some kind of outlet and there haven't been a lot of other LGBT-friendly places I can go. So maybe I'm fishing for excuses to hold back. But now that I've started and gotten a go-ahead I guess I can't really stop.

I'm biologically male and I don't know my actual gender and I'm not sure that I want to because labels usually make me feel pigeonholed rather than empowered. I have a ridiculous case of womb envy and I deeply crave the ability to become pregnant but I also want to keep my penis. The body I really want to have is one that is intersex, with mostly female characteristics and a fertile uterus, but a functional penis in place of a clitoris.

I feel conflicted and uncertain about identifying as trans* and I have gotten the impression that doing so might be highly disrespectful to actual transfolk (not to mention the problem with labels that I just described). Mouse made a telling comment in the Newbie Waystation when I first joined:

mouse wrote:
i doubt any of the regular forumites will tar and feather you for your gender identity or struggles therewith (in fact, i think you will find a lot of support, unless your issue is something like "i MUST be a man because girls are stupid and have cooties and teh gays are just icky")


My reservations are kind of eerily close to what mouse predicted there. My childhood involved a lot of abuse at the hands of women and girls, most of whom cited my maleness as justification for the abuse at least once, and I am pretty sure that this programmed me to forever subliminally associate maleness with subservience, immorality, and shame, while associating femaleness with personal freedom, competence, and societal power, regardless of how I try to keep things in perspective and educate myself objectively as an adult. My imaginary friends were all powerful, adventurous women and girls, and so were my favorite characters in media. I fantasized about these powerful females judging me as superior to the other boys and worthy of being their friend and valued ally. There was a long time where I felt disgusted by my male genitalia and wished that I was smooth between the legs, like an angel (this ended around the time I had my first orgasm and I've been a little happier with my male genitals ever since, but it was some pretty intense disgust and self-loathing while it lasted).

So... yeah, I'm kind of worried that my issue might in fact be "i MUST be a woman because men are stupid and have cooties".

On a different note I've encountered some people who've suggested that I'm just trying to make good my escape from the responsibility and guilt of cismale privilege (especially so in response to the idea that I have no interest in surgery, and only passing curiosity in hormones) without actually risking the stigma that real transfolk suffer on a daily basis. And the transfolk I've talked to/read about have all basically said that they felt like the opposite gender from childhood; I didn't, and I'm still not sure that I do, because there's a distinction between desiring to have a specific kind of body/genitalia and actually outright identifying as the sex that biologically possesses them. I don't care what pronouns people use for me and I don't really have any problem identifying as any particular gender or lack thereof (though I generally stick with He because it matches my biological sex, and as long as I don't care what pronoun is used I might as well use the one that's reasonably convenient for me and everyone else).

Or maybe I am some sort of obscure type of transperson, but if that is the case I am presently one who is too cowardly to come out and give up cis-passing privilege, so it doesn't do much to alleviate my feelings of shame. : /

IDK. I'm new and pretty ignorant about the whole thing right now and it all feels big and complicated and intimidating.

Heretical Rants wrote:
even if the Chelsea Manning discussion was actually going anywhere in this thread, discussions don't have to happen linearly in forums

posts stick around for a long time, and multiple conversations can be going on in a given thread all at once with no real negative consequences for anyone involved


Wait, seriously?

Then why on earth do people get so angry about "what about teh menz" on forums? I thought the whole deal there was that it derails threads that are supposed to be about women's issues; if multiple conversations are no big deal then why should anyone care?
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6077
Location: California

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Then why on earth do people get so angry about "what about teh menz" on forums? I thought the whole deal there was that it derails threads that are supposed to be about women's issues; if multiple conversations are no big deal then why should anyone care?


because 999 times out of 1000, those posts are not made in good faith; they're made to obfuscate and derail the conversation that's already taking place, not because the person making them actually cares about the issue. e.g. 999 times out of 1000, the person who interrupts a discussion about the issue of women being objectified in the media to tell you that men get objectified too does not actually want to talk about how prevailing social/gender norms affect men or the issue of their portrayal in the media, they just want to get you to stop talking about how women are objectified in the media.

that's not really the case here because the post you made is more or less exactly what this thread is for, and you weren't really interrupting a discussion anyway.
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Ennis



Joined: 09 Jun 2013
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Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Varthonai, have you read up anything about non-binary gender? Don't take my word for gospel or anything but what you're saying sounds very similar to the experiences of a lot of genderqueer people. Not saying that you couldn't still be a woman, that is the gender identity, and still want to keep your penis/other "male" physical characteristics, which is to do with physical sex.

I felt the same way about somehow it would be disrespectful for me to ID as trans* because I definitely hadn't felt some kind of strong sense of wanting to transition since childhood. What helped me was advice telling me to focus on what I felt like and wanted presently and in the future. If you have a facebook and want to talk to a whole heap of trans* people about your feelings I'd recommend the group Genderqueer Atheists (you don't actually have to be an atheist, it's more to keep the anti-atheists away). I guarantee if you post something there you'll get a lot of replies and advice if you want it. (I'm part of it so I'd reply at least haha.)

Re the abuse: I'm sorry that that happened to you, abuse is never justified and abusers will use anything to make you think you deserved it. I think you probably realise it but in society it's usually (cis) men with the societal power, and women who are shamed. Not that this denies your personal feelings about the matter, but what I'm trying to get at is that if you could imagine that for you, personally, despite all the shit that society throws at women/people who are perceived as women or transfeminine MAAB, you would still prefer that and it would still feel more comfortable to be that. It's whatever feels right for you.

Also seriously don't listen to people saying "you're trying to escape X", being trans* isn't an escape from anything. I read a lot of that stuff before and I was so mad at non-binaries for the longest time because I was like "NO YOU CAN'T BE THAT, UNLESS YOU ARE THE TRANSIEST OF THE TRANS YOU JUST GOTTA STICK WITH WHAT U GOT AND DEAL WITH IT LIKE I AM, YES I'M FUCKING MISERABLE SO YOU HAVE TO BE TOO". So after a period of intense angst as I tried to come to terms with my confusing feelings and feeling massively uncomfortable identifying as <birth> at some point, after reading a whole lot of relatable stuff from genderqueer/non-binary folk I was just like "fuck it this is who I am".

Except now I'm going down the trans* slippery slope and want to try hormones, it doesn't happen to everyone but uh yeah be prepared to find out new and interesting things about yourself if you end up going "yeah I really am not birth-assigned gender".
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To my understanding, this would be a visual representation of human sexuality:


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