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2013-08-25: Fight Back
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Ennis



Joined: 09 Jun 2013
Posts: 697
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So is Motorcycle going to be our new Rothide but with a flavour of newfound TV Tropes excitement mixed with good old incoherency? Should be interesting.

But re: bullying, I agree that ignoring it often doesn't work, and fighting back also often doesn't work. I got pretty disillusioned with telling teachers anything because I knew they could easily twist my "pushing back" at them into either "they're the one bullying ME" or a kind of assurance of mutual destruction. My bully left the school and then everything was pretty alright from then onwards, but if they hadn't I'm not sure when it would have stopped.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 10262
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Istancow wrote:
Motorcycle, are you a Cruiser, a Chopper, or a Crotch Rocket?


I'm thinking more of a moped:


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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 10262
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ennis wrote:
But re: bullying, I agree that ignoring it often doesn't work, and fighting back also often doesn't work. I got pretty disillusioned with telling teachers anything because I knew they could easily twist my "pushing back" at them into either "they're the one bullying ME" or a kind of assurance of mutual destruction. My bully left the school and then everything was pretty alright from then onwards, but if they hadn't I'm not sure when it would have stopped.

The only reason I was able to return to my old high school was that the main people who bullied me graduated a couple of years ahead of me. I seriously doubt I would have returned otherwise. It was nearly as bad as the bullying in 4th & 5th grade, right after my parents moved from New Jersey to PA. I remember thinking I had made friends . . . until the bullies picked on them and they turned around and bullied me along with the bullies. Coming home and crying and shaking uncontrollably for hours . . . and people wonder why I start to get angry when they they start pressing on the whole "But you shouldn't home school your kids -- they won't get normal socialization. . . " Yeah, fuck that noise
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Motorcycle



Joined: 14 Jul 2011
Posts: 129

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ennis, I am not a new anyone. I have been on this board for awhile now. Also, I am myself. Not anyone else. Just like you are Ennis & not the new "Billy Bob".

Istancow: I prefer Sportsters. Comfort for somewhat long rides but not feel like I'm basically riding a Winnebago. Crotch rockets aren't my style, plus too hard on my damaged back. (Was in a car wreck when friend was drivin.)
Also I only ride Harleys.

Oh look! Darqcyde is still trying to slam me. The attempts are kinda cute in a runty way.

But yeah bullying is a method of cowards. They only seek to prey on those they believe they can cow or overpower. The best method to deal with them varies from situation to situation & from person to person. As for me: my father was a biker & ex military so he was very practical. He realized since I was pretty much a nerd that others would seek me out as a target. So he taught me to be able to stand up for myself & others & to be able to defend myself. Yes it didn't stop all the bullies, & of course I got into trouble for fighting & many times I would have been hurt less if had just allowed it to happen. But I did get bullied less & I did manage to help some other kids.

I agree with Yinello, victim shamers are pretty much just another form of bullies. It is no one's fault & no one should have to just take it. Fight back, report them, do whatever it takes to stop the victimizing.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, you are acting the new rothide in terms of your willful ignorance and close mindedness. When someone says something intelligent and reasonable, and you come back with "Don't you give me your ivory tower psychobabble" (regardless of what you think you are saying, this is how you come across), and in this forum no less, you have to expect some sort of negative response towards you.
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Motorcycle



Joined: 14 Jul 2011
Posts: 129

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol! & just how am I willfully ignorant & closed minded? I've freely admitted that there are many ways to deal with bullies & my way wasn't for everyone. If I was close minded as you claim should I not be saying there is only one way & be insulting to any one that disagrees with me? Oh wait, that's what you are doing. Because I not see things your way you attempt to insult me. From goat farts to calling me a moped. Yet I have yet to insult you once or your stance on dealing with bullies. Matter of fact the 1st dealings we had was you stating my posts were translated flatulence from a goat & I hadn't even interacted with you in anyway. From there on you did nothing but try to insult me & every post I have made even though I have done nothing to you or insulted you. By your very actions you fit the definition of a bully.
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Onimaru



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was bullied for a few years, but I took a VERY Different approach, I'd been in Karate since I was 7, always taught to walk away and not to antagonize and at the absolute LEAST never to throw the first punch. But I was also a BIG kid, fat looking but I had a very low body fat percentage from training. So most of the abuse was verbal, and I had good close friends so most of the time it just didn't get to me, and anyone who laid a hand on me well normally they couldn't even really hurt me, few things are more unnerving than when someone you've been hitting for the last minute is still smiling at you.

Then I hit highschool, and there were the groups, the Mouth and his rally of friends that would back him up, they would gang beat people and even use weapons if going hand to hand still looked against their favor. Still most left me alone aside from the verbal stuff, and I got by, still had my friends (Note: Friends stronger than I was so I didn't have to worry about them either.) and let most of the crap roll off my back. But I slowly got more and more fed up with going to class seeing perfectly friendly nice kids in tears, black eyes, bloody noses and broken bones while teachers looked the other way, I shit you not they didn't do anything unless they witnessed it, and even then both parties, or ALL parties would be blamed and face suspension for fighting.

So I started fighting back, I started hunting and provoking the bullies, waiting for them to throw the first punch and then I would beat them with a smile on my face, groups, I just waited until they were alone, one by one and took them down, until they realized that even as a group they weren't safe cause they weren't always in a group and that's when I'd find them. This all culminated in a fight with a guy that beat a girl black and blue on school grounds and got away with it because she hit first as all witnesses could attest, AFTER he made fun of her for her 'Lousy Mother' for committing suicide.

When I found him, he knew who I was, the things I did and the asshat pulled a knife thinking it would be enough to scare me off... I pushed him until he gave a swipe, let it cut my arm.... From there, well I'll save the gory details but, let's just say that what I did in that fight made me realize the error of becoming what I was supposed to be fighting. Last I heard when I left Highschool was that after getting out of the Hospital, he's an Agoraphobic wreck prone to panic attacks and anti-depressant meds, who will probably never walk right again.

And that's what people have to be wary of, if I'd taken it upon myself to simply stop bullying when I seen it, stepping in and saying it wasn't cool, verbally shaming them in front of people, or at least showing everyone the 'cool kid' would only be the BIG man when he was facing someone weaker, I could have helped instead of becoming what I was supposed to be fighting. I went WAY TOO far, I became a bully, I chose to be a Monster who punished after the fact rather than doing what I could do to help to prevent it. Sure, maybe some or most of the guys I wrecked didn't bully again, but did that help the people they already did? Not at all, and the ones it didn't change, since they couldn't hurt me.... Who did they take it out on? Who got bullied harder when I took away their precious superiority complex? How many kids quit school or worse because of my mistakes in trying to be the guy who beat their bullies, instead of trying to be their friend and helping them through the problems they faced?

It's taken me many years to realize how foolish many of my choices in my youth were, My 'White Knight' Syndrome. To steal a Quote from a Favorite AMV about Trigun, "Kill the Spiders to save the Butterflies.... It's logical until you realize, that by striving for it, You become a Spider yourself."

There is no easy answer to Bullying, 'Take care of it yourself' doesn't work for everyone, 'Tell a teacher/adult' doesn't always work either, 'Fight Back' doesn't always work and 'Just ignore it' doesn't always work. There is no, end all answer, each case is as different as the people involved and we need to look at these problems and be willing to do what it takes to help the victims, but also try and help the Bullies to get them to stop before they run into someone bigger stronger and..... get themselves hurt.
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Motorcycle



Joined: 14 Jul 2011
Posts: 129

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh well. Time to get to what truly matters & something we all agree on: Bullying is a very real & shitty thing that is happening. There are many ways to deal with it & those ways are pretty much a case by case basis. & that bullying should be stopped.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Motorcycle wrote:
lol! & just how am I willfully ignorant & closed minded? I've freely admitted that there are many ways to deal with bullies & my way wasn't for everyone. If I was close minded as you claim should I not be saying there is only one way & be insulting to any one that disagrees with me? Oh wait, that's what you are doing. Because I not see things your way you attempt to insult me. From goat farts to calling me a moped. Yet I have yet to insult you once or your stance on dealing with bullies. Matter of fact the 1st dealings we had was you stating my posts were translated flatulence from a goat & I hadn't even interacted with you in anyway. From there on you did nothing but try to insult me & every post I have made even though I have done nothing to you or insulted you. By your very actions you fit the definition of a bully.


No, the first dealing was me having to read what ever bullshit you typed on the screen to taphenes. And you still don't get it, and don't seem to be making any kind of real effort.

Troll harder.
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Istancow



Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 1072
Location: Chamber of the House of Lords in the Palace of Westminister

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can agree that bullying is a real, unnecessary, and shitty thing. I don't really think I'm qualified to speak on how to handle it.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was bullied in school, the solution was to tell me that all those kids were going to grow up to be poor. That didn't make the problem go away, nor did it make me feel any better. It also made me decide these people clearly weren't trustworthy, since they thought revenge was that important.

Eventually it stopped, which I think maybe had something to do with the kids getting older and more mature, or else the rash of school shootings (around the time of Columbine) made them concerned about making fun of weird loners.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
When I was bullied in school, the solution was to tell me that all those kids were going to grow up to be poor. That didn't make the problem go away, nor did it make me feel any better. It also made me decide these people clearly weren't trustworthy, since they thought revenge was that important.

Eventually it stopped, which I think maybe had something to do with the kids getting older and more mature, or else the rash of school shootings (around the time of Columbine) made them concerned about making fun of weird loners.


Columbine is a great example of how America works-- shit's gotta get REALLY bad before we try to make it better. Bullying just didn't appear in the 80's or 90's, it's been in western cultural effectively forever. It' sad it took a bunch of high school kids getting massacred and becoming murders in order for us to start (and we still have a LOOOONG way to go) becoming more empathetic as a society and culture. Yes it wasn't the first incident, and hardly the last, but it was definitely a slap in the face, a wake-up call that shit's gotta change.
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Felgraf



Joined: 10 Jul 2012
Posts: 707

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
stripeypants wrote:
When I was bullied in school, the solution was to tell me that all those kids were going to grow up to be poor. That didn't make the problem go away, nor did it make me feel any better. It also made me decide these people clearly weren't trustworthy, since they thought revenge was that important.

Eventually it stopped, which I think maybe had something to do with the kids getting older and more mature, or else the rash of school shootings (around the time of Columbine) made them concerned about making fun of weird loners.


Columbine is a great example of how America works-- shit's gotta get REALLY bad before we try to make it better. Bullying just didn't appear in the 80's or 90's, it's been in western cultural effectively forever. It' sad it took a bunch of high school kids getting massacred and becoming murders in order for us to start (and we still have a LOOOONG way to go) becoming more empathetic as a society and culture. Yes it wasn't the first incident, and hardly the last, but it was definitely a slap in the face, a wake-up call that shit's gotta change.


Actually, I seem to recall reading some things that indicate columbine wasn't necessarily an incident of 'striking back against bullies' at all, and that narrative wasn't correct?

I could be misremembering.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1043

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Motorcycle wrote:
The attempts are kinda cute in a runty way.

But yeah bullying is a method of cowards. They only seek to prey on those they believe they can cow or overpower.


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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Felgraf



Joined: 10 Jul 2012
Posts: 707

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was bullied some in elementary school and my first year of middle school, but I also realize that I got really lucky later on down the line in middle school. I (unknowingly) befriended a bully beater who apparently kind of took care of things behind my back for quite some time. I'm not sure I'd have survived middle school and highschool as mentally stable as I did without him. I didn't learn this until much later.

He feels/felt really guilty about using violence the way he did, though I do think he's come to terms with it.

Due to this, the only 'bully' that I really had to deal with in middle school was... well, the most notable one was, um, kind of.. pathetic? I'm not really sure how else to describe it. Like, he was trying really, really hard to be a bully, but he was *REALLY BAD AT IT*.

For instance, trying to do the "shake your hand to make up HAHA I WILL ACTUALLy SQUEEZE REALLY HARD TO TRY AD HURT YOUR HAND" trick, except... .. he.. couldn't really squeeze hard enough to actually hurt my hand.

Or his attempted insults. Like calling me a lesbian. ... Which... really just confused me more than insulted me. ("I... what? .. I'm a dude, how is that... what?")

He was more *irritating* than actually successful at bullying, honestly. In retrospect, I feel really bad for him in some ways. But I'm also overly empathetic.

I do recall getting sent to peer mediation with him and one other student in highschool. Me and the other student worked out/realized that we just really got on each other's nerves. The bad-attempt-at-bully... managed to get on the *peer mediator's* nerves.
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