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Sexual Orientation, Gender Identity, and the rest
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 17096
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Varthonai wrote:
So... yeah, I'm kind of worried that my issue might in fact be "i MUST be a woman because men are stupid and have cooties".


it sounds like you are coming from a much more complex (and carefully self-examined) place than the person i was parodying. i'm really sorry you've had the life-experiences you had, and i wish i had some useful advice. but i think you can see - there are people here who can give it, so try not to worry about talking about it here. i can lend a sympathetic ear, at least.

Varthonai wrote:
Heretical Rants wrote:

posts stick around for a long time, and multiple conversations can be going on in a given thread all at once with no real negative consequences for anyone involved


Wait, seriously?

Then why on earth do people get so angry about "what about teh menz" on forums? I thought the whole deal there was that it derails threads that are supposed to be about women's issues; if multiple conversations are no big deal then why should anyone care?


it's hard to explain, exactly. we do get tired of people who seem to just keep making the same stupid arguments (like wolfo). and some threads tend to stick closer to the established topic than others. but there are a lot of threads that end up looking like 3 or 4 separate conversations with people shouting over each other, and other people bumbling around trying to keep them straight.

it's kind of like a cocktail party (especially in that more than one of the people you are talking to may be drunk). the conversation can move between topics and alternate between serious and silly. you learn to kind of pick up on the flow. if something is really off-topic and distracting from an on-going conversation, usually people just ignore that post and keep on about what they were discussing. there are a few who will berate you just out of general principles, but you will figure out who they are. don't be too quick to run off, little bunny!
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
there are a few who will berate you just out of general principles, but you will figure out who they are. don't be too quick to run off, little bunny!


Hi! Surprised
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think with time, thought and support you'll figure it out, Varthonai.

As for what about the mens, here are some of the problems:

1. They ask repetitive beginner questions in advanced threads. The questions are ine for discussion, but MRA's expect every discussion to be one where people drop what they are doing to educate them.

2. When given information, they are hostile about it, they do not listen to the answers, and then they repeat their same question over and over and over. They claim no one has tried to answer, or that people don't want. Then they claim that because of this, they hate feminism - when they march into the discussion in the first place stating, "I hate feminism."

3. When told, "This word means this definition in this context," they insist on using a definition from another context. So feminists may use salad to mean "A scientific study." An MRA will be told this, but will insist that 'salad' can only refer to foodstuff. So while other people are talking about scientific studies, they act like people are talking about salad and refuse to acknowledge the word is being used to refer to something else.

4. Biotruths. Biotruths everywhere.

5. Hours or days of patient conversation is suddenly decried as The Ravings Of A Harpy Bitchwoman. And I think it is this more than anything else that makes MRA's no one's favorite conversation partner.
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Arc Tempest



Joined: 28 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel like I'm going to regret asking, but what is "biotruth"?

Is it made by the Umbrella Corporation?
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 10277
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
I think with time, thought and support you'll figure it out, Varthonai.

As for what about the mens, here are some of the problems:

1. They ask repetitive beginner questions in advanced threads. The questions are ine for discussion, but MRA's expect every discussion to be one where people drop what they are doing to educate them.

2. When given information, they are hostile about it, they do not listen to the answers, and then they repeat their same question over and over and over. They claim no one has tried to answer, or that people don't want. Then they claim that because of this, they hate feminism - when they march into the discussion in the first place stating, "I hate feminism."

3. When told, "This word means this definition in this context," they insist on using a definition from another context. So feminists may use salad to mean "A scientific study." An MRA will be told this, but will insist that 'salad' can only refer to foodstuff. So while other people are talking about scientific studies, they act like people are talking about salad and refuse to acknowledge the word is being used to refer to something else.

4. Biotruths. Biotruths everywhere.

5. Hours or days of patient conversation is suddenly decried as The Ravings Of A Harpy Bitchwoman. And I think it is this more than anything else that makes MRA's no one's favorite conversation partner.


6. Rampant illiteracy. They jump in on page 3 or 7 or 19, read NONE of the previous posts, and say stuff like "WHAT ABOUT X, Y and Z!?!??!?!?" to which the literate population of the forum responds "Um, we've explained X three times in the last two pages, cited five sources that disprove Y, and explained Z in the very first post on the very first page."

Dennis wrote a great analogy of what the "dudebros do here" by using the scenario of walking into a strangers house and shitting in the middle of their living room.
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Last edited by Darqcyde on Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arc Tempest wrote:
I feel like I'm going to regret asking, but what is "biotruth"?

Is it made by the Umbrella Corporation?


biotruth (tm):
"it is biotruth that group x has traits A and B because genetics or something idk I know this because of my own personal observations which are totally accurate because I am awesome and also there might have been a study or something which I won't cite and probably wasn't peer-reviewed and probably looked at small differences between large groups and wouldn't be useful for predicting the traits of individuals but anyways that proves my point about you people EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU"
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heretical Rants wrote:
Arc Tempest wrote:
I feel like I'm going to regret asking, but what is "biotruth"?

Is it made by the Umbrella Corporation?


biotruth (tm):
"it is biotruth that group x has traits A and B because genetics or something idk I know this because of my own personal observations which are totally accurate because I am awesome and also there might have been a study or something which I won't cite and probably wasn't peer-reviewed and probably looked at small differences between large groups and wouldn't be useful for predicting the traits of individuals but anyways that proves my point about you people EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU"


You could also say that biotruths are scientific, rational explanations that disprove assumptions, "common sense", and various other types of ignorance and prejudice.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
Heretical Rants wrote:
Arc Tempest wrote:
I feel like I'm going to regret asking, but what is "biotruth"?

Is it made by the Umbrella Corporation?


biotruth (tm):
"it is biotruth that group x has traits A and B because genetics or something idk I know this because of my own personal observations which are totally accurate because I am awesome and also there might have been a study or something which I won't cite and probably wasn't peer-reviewed and probably looked at small differences between large groups and wouldn't be useful for predicting the traits of individuals but anyways that proves my point about you people EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU"


You could also say that biotruths are scientific, rational explanations that disprove assumptions, "common sense", and various other types of ignorance and prejudice.


You could say that, if that's what they were. Biotruths is the name given to the unscientific, irrational rationale for their prejudice and bigotry.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
mouse wrote:
there are a few who will berate you just out of general principles, but you will figure out who they are. don't be too quick to run off, little bunny!


Hi! Surprised


hi monkey!

*waves excitedly while pointing to monkey behind her hand and mouthing to varthonai "lthat's the one!"
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
Darqcyde wrote:
Heretical Rants wrote:
Arc Tempest wrote:
I feel like I'm going to regret asking, but what is "biotruth"?

Is it made by the Umbrella Corporation?


biotruth (tm):
"it is biotruth that group x has traits A and B because genetics or something idk I know this because of my own personal observations which are totally accurate because I am awesome and also there might have been a study or something which I won't cite and probably wasn't peer-reviewed and probably looked at small differences between large groups and wouldn't be useful for predicting the traits of individuals but anyways that proves my point about you people EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU"


You could also say that biotruths are scientific, rational explanations that disprove assumptions, "common sense", and various other types of ignorance and prejudice.


You could say that, if that's what they were. Biotruths is the name given to the unscientific, irrational rationale for their prejudice and bigotry.


Sorry, I was trying to be sarcastic i.e. explaining what they REALLY are *wink wink* (I was trying to cosplay, so to speak)
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah....well then.

(It did seem weird you didn't know, for what it's worth?)
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Words fail to express my rage:

http://www.alternet.org/investigations/sc-teacher-bullied-student-mercilessly-called-him-gay-boy-until-student-attempted

Quote:
The teacher, Alan Ingram, is not named as a defendant, though he is named throughout the complaint. Ingram was the boy's teacher at West Ashley High School in Charleston, the family says in the lawsuit.

"In early April 2013, Ingram began bullying plaintiff in class, in front of plaintiff's classmates, by telling plaintiff's classmates that plaintiff was 'gay,' and by calling plaintiff names and belittling him in the presence of his classmates. This continued on a daily basis for an extended period of time," the complaint states.

"During this time, Ingram repeatedly belittled plaintiff in front of his peers, calling plaintiff names in class such as 'Gay,' 'Gay Boy,' 'Mrs. Pete,' 'Mrs. Peters,' and other names.

"Ingram repeatedly told plaintiff's classmates that plaintiff was in a homosexual relationship with another male classmate and that they were 'boyfriend and girlfriend'.

Further, Ingram encouraged and asked other students in class to pick on plaintiff as well and similarly belittle him during classes."

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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ennis wrote:
the trans* slippery slope


I've always liked this phrase

Like OH NO, IT'S THE TRANSLIPPERY SLOPE, WATCH OUT, FOR THIS WAY LIES SELF-DISCOVERY, AIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEE
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JazmynGrey



Joined: 29 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for introducing me to the term "Grey-Ace" this is so perfect for both my husband and me. (Luckily we found each other. - I'm pretty sure our daughter was conceived during Pon-farr) I won't go putting official labels on him mind you, because that's not my job. I will say I'm somewhat guilty of enforcing traditional gender roles on my child so far, I like pink and purple so thusly she has lots of pink and purple, although we call her frog, and she has a ton of frog stuff too, which is not necessarily feminine, much to the dismay of the rest of my family. I've been more trying to keep her away from rampant commercial toys and branding... which is clearly why I spent part of the day putting together a disney princess castle...

In any case, I just wanted to say thank you for the term. I have learned so much lurking here - and that was just reading the main comic part of the forum.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Omg the Pon Farr comment made my night.

Anyway, you're welcome! Sometimes it's nice to find a term you're comfortable with.

Also frogs are awesome. (but princesses can be awesome too The idea is more 'provide options' than it is labeling any one thing 'bad'.)
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