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2013-09-08: Shadow
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tat's ingeniously vague and multi-entandred like that
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moor wrote:
Well, yes, but the fact that she's given it by DeMonique seems to be saying that using it would be a bad thing. So is using her words to attack back a bad thing? Or was there a specific way that she was going to use it (specific words) that the pitchfork was representing?


i would guess specific words - words can jab at you, can be cutting and hurtful.
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Miss Magenta



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can make me believe I deserve it."
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Moor



Joined: 07 May 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But the fact that it's a pitchfork, given to her by a devil girl, when she's on an elevated platform over a sea of anonymous people whom we only see the hands of, seems to be saying that she's either acting or was thinking of acting like a devil girl, using the microphone in a way analogous to the pitchfork of a devil girl. The only way (correct me if I'm wrong about this, I totally could be) to hurt someone with words is either if it's personalized to them and their issues (not here), or if they already, to some extent, take you seriously, which doesn't seem like it's the case here, either.

Or is it trying to say that she's realizing that this is the job she's giving herself -- standing on an elevated platform, lashing out at people who deserve it, just like devil girls? But that only works if the people being punished by the devil girls actually do deserve it, and while that's the case in the source mythos of Christianity, I don't remember that ever being a thing here at all (the people who are being punished are not "bad people being punished for that" but "normal people who are burning and being stabbed", who should be taken pity on).
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think whether or not she actually hurts them with her word sis at all relevant. Actually, I'm going to say it's not.

The point is her intent of using words in a hurtful manner is what's being called into question. If a white person walks up to a black person and calls them a dumb nigger, regardless of the black person's reaction or feelings, whether or not they are insulted is irrelevant to the fact that the white person used hurtful (or more precisely hateful) language.
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moor wrote:
But the fact that it's a pitchfork, given to her by a devil girl, when she's on an elevated platform over a sea of anonymous people whom we only see the hands of, seems to be saying that she's either acting or was thinking of acting like a devil girl, using the microphone in a way analogous to the pitchfork of a devil girl. The only way (correct me if I'm wrong about this, I totally could be) to hurt someone with words is either if it's personalized to them and their issues (not here), or if they already, to some extent, take you seriously, which doesn't seem like it's the case here, either.

Or is it trying to say that she's realizing that this is the job she's giving herself -- standing on an elevated platform, lashing out at people who deserve it, just like devil girls? But that only works if the people being punished by the devil girls actually do deserve it, and while that's the case in the source mythos of Christianity, I don't remember that ever being a thing here at all (the people who are being punished are not "bad people being punished for that" but "normal people who are burning and being stabbed", who should be taken pity on).


It's C: Her inner devil girl is tempting her to lash out hurtfully at the crowd, examine the last panel as she looks at the microphone(pitchfork) concerned at the impulse but not entirely sure what she'll do next.
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Moor



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey, yeah, you're right -- that does seem to make the most sense.

But what lashing out could she have done with a microphone? More than the angry intensely feminist stuff she's already doing.
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CalmBlueSea



Joined: 12 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moor wrote:
Monkey, yeah, you're right -- that does seem to make the most sense.

But what lashing out could she have done with a microphone? More than the angry intensely feminist stuff she's already doing.


Sorry, I'm not Monkey, but have my $.02 anyway.

I don't, personally, see it as 'Nique's devil side offering her to start lashing out at the crowd. That 'angry intensely feminist stuff' is the lashing out (specifically, the angry part). This comic is just her realizing that she's maybe not really going about this the right way.

For example:


This isn't an attempt to convince that Dudebro of anything, it's not trying to show him that he's wrong. She's just shaming him, calling him a baby, and pointing him out for everyone that already agrees with her to laugh at.

It works. I chuckled.

But if he really did believe that 'Nique was a man-hater when he walked in there, he sure wasn't dissuaded by that song. One more moron still firmly in the Patriarchy's - the Devil's - camp. And Nique's shadow thanks her for her service, urges her to continue.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ehh, insults, especially in the form of sarcasm, aren't so straight forward and simple. They can be used, in particular within a group, to diffuse a situation with a high degree of tension. Calling attention the absurdity of someone's comments isn't quite attacking them; it's the difference between a warning shot and a direct attack, however, it is a very thin line she's treading.
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CalmBlueSea



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's all true, insults can be used to relieve tension in that way.

But I would say that introducing the aggressor(s) as 'Man-Babies', making up a lullaby on the fly that says "This is what we are going to do, and if that bothers you in any way, suck it up, be quiet, and deal with it," then looking -directly- at the heckler(s) to mockingly ask 'Okay?' but with a face and implied tone that makes it sound like "I haven't bruised your poor, fragile man-feelings, have I?"

... And her joke doesn't really call attention to the absurdity of the heckler's comment; WE know Nique doesn't hate men, but that's not a conclusion you can reach just by listening to her lullaby.

It all came off, to me, like a bit more than a 'warning shot', venturing into straight-up "Oh, Fuck you!" territory.

And just to re-iterate from my first wall of text, to a point, that kind of belittlement might be necessary; it DOES help a few people shove a foot in their mouth and think, and it IS cathartic as all hell for the in-group. But I wager it drives away more than it attracts, in the long run.
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Timpie



Joined: 28 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Insulting and mocking is a bit much 'pandering' to the in-crowd. While it may silence the heckler, it"ll just send them back where they came from with a reinforced view of 'those guys are crazy and unable to form an argument', even if they initially just mocked and insulted your point of view with hardly an ounce of sense. And eventually they'll be back, even more toxic, trying to derail even more then they did before.
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really? Because my fairly extensive experience with mocking the shit out of people tends more toward them leaving and not coming back.
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Timpie



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll not deny your effectiveness, I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of one of your insults. The question is if they go shit up other places or end up in a self-congratulating shithole where their opinions are agreed with.

Out of sight is out of mind I guess.
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Timpie wrote:
I'll not deny your effectiveness, I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of one of your insults. The question is if they go shit up other places or end up in a self-congratulating shithole where their opinions are agreed with.

Out of sight is out of mind I guess.


The philosophy is this. There are legitimately very few times when people roll into a forum to complain about something and leave with their mind changed. Regardless of whether people receive them with cited studies and links or not. Blatant hostility makes them leave faster.
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Istancow



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I do hope you pardon me for not assisting in these hostilities. Suum cuique.
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