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Mindslicer



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1791
Location: North of the People's Republic of Massachusetts

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those people weren't ripped off because they didn't ask to see a license, they were ripped off because the person who promised to do the work for them didn't. Having a government permission slip doesn't prevent someone from being ripped off. Fraud certainly exists, and laws to protect against that should exist, but laws that serve to limit competition for the benefit of the politically connected harm the public in more ways than one.

Or can you come up with a better reason for an interior designer to need six years of education before getting a license?
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WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 12085
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mindslicer wrote:
Those people weren't ripped off because they didn't ask to see a license, they were ripped off because the person who promised to do the work for them didn't. Having a government permission slip doesn't prevent someone from being ripped off.

Actually yes it does, in many cases. It requires the contractor to keep contact information up to date and keep records which makes them more accountable for doing a terrible job. They cannot just skip town and avoid getting caught like the itinerant scammers do. This is why you are advised to ALWAYS ASK TO SEE THEIR LICENSE BEFORE SIGNING ANYTHING. That usually scares off the fakes, who don't bother to call back. It is a bare minimum level of protection.
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TIAB



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 683

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you really asking why people who are hired to enter a private residence and spend hours upon hours in it are expected to be on record with the authorities and have a reasonable paper trail for their work?

I'm sure it's a great idea to let a complete stranger into your house with no way of tracing any potential wrongdoing on their behalf. It's probably a great idea to get an unlicensed landscaper too, so when they start digging to install that reflection pond that you want there is no accountability when they break into a septic system, or cut a fiber optic cable, or treat your lawn with chemicals that are harmful to pets.

Heck, why have licenses for anything for that matter? Let's just let anyone in the world get behind the wheel and just start driving. It's not like it's all that hard or anything, or that the safety of others is involved.
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fritterdonut



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
Posts: 1154
Location: Hedonism

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/u-s-navy-yard-shooting-in-washington-leaves-6-dead-1.1855784

Quote:
Two U.S. navy officials say at least six people have died in a shooting at the Washington Navy Yard, and the Washington police chief says there are potentially two additional suspects wearing military-style uniforms still at large.

The officials spoke on condition of anonymity on Monday because they were not authorized to discuss the situation publicly.


Yet another mass shooting, yet again at a military installation. Jesus I hope this isn't another Boston Bombing scenario with suspects at large fighting with police.

Edit (11:49 PST): 12 dead, including gunman, with 2 other potential gunmen on the loose still. The men are apparently wearing tan navy uniforms and were seen carrying guns.

Edit: (11:52 PST): One of the two men was found and is not a suspect or person of interest. Still looking for a guy in olive military fatigues.
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Snorri



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man shot in Russia in argument over Kant


I can sort of understand it.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snorri wrote:
Man shot in Russia in argument over Kant


I can sort of understand it.

I kinda hate myself for how much I laughed at this.
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Michael



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 10656

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're probably both on the forum
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh man, I was confused, at first I thought you meant the shooters.
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Mindslicer



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
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Location: North of the People's Republic of Massachusetts

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unarmed man shot by N.C. police after apparent wreck.

Quote:
CHARLOTTE, N.C. (AP) — An unarmed man who may have been looking for help after a vehicle wreck was shot and killed by a Charlotte-Mecklenburg police officer Saturday as he ran toward him, police said. The officer was later charged with voluntary manslaughter.

A statement issued by police said officers responded to a breaking and entering call on the city's east side around 2:30 a.m. Someone had knocked on the door of a residence, and the homeowner opened the door, thinking it was her husband. When she discovered it wasn't, she closed the door and called 911.

When officers arrived, they found Jonathan A. Ferrell, 24, a short distance from the home, and he matched a description given by the homeowner, police said.

The statement said officers approached Ferrell to investigate the original call. Ferrell ran toward the officers and was hit with a Taser. Ferrell continued to run toward police when Ofc. Randall Kerrick fired his weapon, hitting Ferrell several times. Ferrell was pronounced dead at the scene.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fritterdonut wrote:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/u-s-navy-yard-shooting-in-washington-leaves-6-dead-1.1855784

Quote:
Two U.S. navy officials say at least six people have died in a shooting at the Washington Navy Yard, and the Washington police chief says there are potentially two additional suspects wearing military-style uniforms still at large.

The officials spoke on condition of anonymity on Monday because they were not authorized to discuss the situation publicly.


Yet another mass shooting, yet again at a military installation. Jesus I hope this isn't another Boston Bombing scenario with suspects at large fighting with police.

Edit (11:49 PST): 12 dead, including gunman, with 2 other potential gunmen on the loose still. The men are apparently wearing tan navy uniforms and were seen carrying guns.

Edit: (11:52 PST): One of the two men was found and is not a suspect or person of interest. Still looking for a guy in olive military fatigues.


New update:
The gunman was identified by the Associated Press and other news organizations as Aaron Alexis, a 34-year-old civilian contractor for the Navy.

And there's a video of the guy here http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/national-international/Confirmed-Shooter-at-Navy-Yard-One-Person-Shot-223897891.html?_osource=SocialFlowTwt_MIBrand
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mindslicer wrote:

CA has some of the most onerous licensing requirements in the country, not to protect people, but to scoop up as much revenue as possible while ensuring that politically connected business owners are protected from 'unfair competition.' These laws tend also to cause no small amount of harm to the poor and to minorities, but I'm sure that's more the fault of all the Republicans running things in the Golden State.


you mean the one who steadfastly refused to allow any sort of tax increase, so the only way the state could increase revenues was to raise fees? you are probably right.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fritterdonut wrote:
Yet another mass shooting, yet again at a military installation.


yes, i'm waiting to hear how this bolsters the argument that we should arm schoolteachers, etc., because these kinds of shootings never happen in places where the gunman knows there might be people with weapons around.
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CTrees



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You realize that stateside military bases are gun-free zones, right? The gates have armed guards, as do brigs, armories, etc., and training exercises may involve guns, but otherwise they are strictly banned? Our armed forces living on base can't even have firearms in their own homes - they have to be secured in the armory. What this guy and Nidal Hassan did were essentially shooting up office buildings. There victims are disarmed, just like the teachers in school shootings and the theater goers in Aurora, CO (that theater was also a gun-free zone). So yes, this is another example of "these kinds of shootings never happen in places where the gunman knows there might be people with weapons around."
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mouse



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

from here:
Quote:
NBC News' Pete Williams noted that many people are authorized to carry firearms at Navy Yard.

oh and:
Quote:
Survellance video shows the gunman entered the NAVSEA building, at 1336 Isaac Hull Ave., with a shotgun, law enforcement officials told News4's Jackie Bensen.

He shot a security officer in the head, killing him, and took his 9 mm pistol and a magazine of ammunition.


so he started by going to the one person that anyone would have expected to be carrying a gun. yes, this guy was definitely deterred by the prospect of facing armed opponents!
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mouse



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

from here:
it seems the gunman had a history of shooting incidents:
Quote:
Aaron Alexis, identified as the gunman in the Washington Navy Yard shootings on Monday, was arrested in Seattle in 2004 for shooting out the tires of a car belonging to a man who, he told police later, he believed had “mocked” him, the Seattle Police Department said in a statement on Monday. Mr. Alexis later blamed the episode on emotional trauma suffered as a participant in rescue efforts after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

It was not clear from the police statement or from the original criminal report how Mr. Alexis was involved in the rescue efforts.

The shooting occurred on May 6, 2004, close to Mr. Alexis’s Seattle home, when two construction workers parked a 1986 Honda Accord in the driveway of their work site, the police department said in its statement.

“The victims reported seeing a man, later identified by police as Alexis, walk out of the home next to their work site, pull a gun from his waistband and fire three shots into the two rear tires of their Honda before he walked slowly back to his home north of the construction site,” the statement said.

The workers later told investigators that Mr. Alexis appeared to have been annoyed by the parking situation around the work site and that he had “stared” at them for more than a month, the statement said.

Quote:
The Star-Telegram also updated its report on a 2010 shooting involving Mr. Alexis. No charges were filed against him when a bullet pierced the floor of his upstairs neighbor’s home. He told police that he had discharged his weapon while cleaning it.

But The Star-Telegram, citing a copy of police records, said the upstairs neighbor, a woman, had told police she was afraid of Mr. Alexis.

The woman told police that Alexis, her downstairs neighbor, did not come up to check on her after the shooting. She said Alexis had called police on her several times in the past for “being loud” but that police never heard anything and, therefore, no action was taken.

“She said that several days ago Aaron confronted her in the parking lot about making too much noise,” the report states.

now, i'm not a firearms expert, but i was taught that when you handle a gun, you keep the barrel pointed _down_ unless you are actually shooting at something. so i'm not clear how he managed to accidentally fire it through his ceiling.

it will be interesting to learn how he got the shotgun he started with.
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