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2013-9-15 Validated Person
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 10067
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dub thee, Rune, as Guardian Against Tergiversatious Pedantry
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1023

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So happy to be of service Wink
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3152

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:


Jesus, even your super contrived example doesn't make it okay. Keep talking though, I'm sure your defense of sexual assault will make you look less creepy soon.


Here's the thing though, it wont.

Given the general themes of the sinfest strip over the past year...year and a half there are going to be ...well no more than 3 kinds of people coming here to comment.

1. People who are generally friendly to feminist themes and enjoy the comic to some degree or another.

2. People hostile to the feminist themes of the comic. These people likely found their way here from sites like shittywebcomics, or one of the redpillesque reddits. We can thank folks like guest and rothide for their presence. You can tell these people because in the first half dozen or so posts on the forum, they'll leap in clutching their pearls and complaining about the feminist themes. There's really no point in attempting to engage them productively, because people who join forums for a product solely to complain about a product aren't looking to engage in a productive dialogue, they're there to complain and maybe score "internet points" with the other douchebags for "schooling" the brainwashed fanbase.

3. People brought here by other people who already post here...there's no telling the value these folks bring to a forum but generally they'll start their posting career in casual or general discussion, not the comic subforum.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6074

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hahaha oh my god, of course it won't. I honestly can't think of a way defending sexual assault would ever make someone less creepy. I was totally being sarcastic with that last line.
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merest



Joined: 15 May 2011
Posts: 325

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
merest wrote:
Rune wrote:
Miracle_Drakon wrote:
Any electronic device which is out of control must be destroyed! You think it's a woman, but first of all it's an ANDROID!!!


Considering how much of history and how many places still have this view about actual women, this is all kinds of fail.


Your refutation risks a category error, unless you are arguing that he a) treats conventional women the same (making him merit that kick), b) he knows that the android is self-aware or he is participating in society-wide wilful ignorance over the issue (definitely making him merit that kick), or c) this is an allegory and she represents women who are routinely objectified by mustachio'd brutes throughout societies and history. Any of these possibilities are okay, and there are doubtless others. I'd probably combine a few of them, finding the allegorical route (in this instance) a bit disappointing by itself.


Since the answer to your contrived objection is obviously C in terms of the storytelling of the comic, and I have made it clear in conversations where you have already been present that I am coming from viewpoint C, you can take this useless bit of "hold on a minute!" tergiversatious pedantry and shove it where the sun don't shine. It adds nothing to this conversation besides the implied drone of your voice.


I am afraid that I have lost my field notes in which your opinions on every subject are recorded. It is a relief to me that you remember your unstated assumptions, for, had you forgotten them as well, they may have been lost beyond recovery. But really, I hoped you had a reading, or combination of readings, that I wasn't seeing. Strict C is a bit dull, but it's serviceable.

Tegiveratious, eh? I had to look that up. I was hoping it was an adjective describing some sort of ferocious dinosaur.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 5897
Location: California

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

here we see the Pedantasaurus dunning-krugerii, a slow-witted herbivore that tries to use brittle spine plates and an enlarged, thick skull to appear more intimidating than it actually is...
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merest



Joined: 15 May 2011
Posts: 325

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
here we see the Pedantasaurus dunning-krugerii, a slow-witted herbivore that tries to use brittle spine plates and an enlarged, thick skull to appear more intimidating than it actually is...


I don't know how you knew I was a vegetarian, but my spine plates are in fact as well-armoured as my skull. *hits you with my snout*
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Moor



Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 276

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
Samsally wrote:


Jesus, even your super contrived example doesn't make it okay. Keep talking though, I'm sure your defense of sexual assault will make you look less creepy soon.


Here's the thing though, it wont.

Given the general themes of the sinfest strip over the past year...year and a half there are going to be ...well no more than 3 kinds of people coming here to comment.

1. People who are generally friendly to feminist themes and enjoy the comic to some degree or another.

2. People hostile to the feminist themes of the comic. These people likely found their way here from sites like shittywebcomics, or one of the redpillesque reddits. We can thank folks like guest and rothide for their presence. You can tell these people because in the first half dozen or so posts on the forum, they'll leap in clutching their pearls and complaining about the feminist themes. There's really no point in attempting to engage them productively, because people who join forums for a product solely to complain about a product aren't looking to engage in a productive dialogue, they're there to complain and maybe score "internet points" with the other douchebags for "schooling" the brainwashed fanbase.

3. People brought here by other people who already post here...there's no telling the value these folks bring to a forum but generally they'll start their posting career in casual or general discussion, not the comic subforum.


I actually came here from TvTropes -- specifically pulled by this strip (I don't remember the context). I don't know how common that is, though.
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Timpie



Joined: 28 Jul 2013
Posts: 58
Location: Mainland Europe - Belgium

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moor wrote:
I actually came here from TvTropes -- specifically pulled by this strip (I don't remember the context). I don't know how common that is, though.


Same, Tvtropes and a whole lot of free time. Due to being such a longrunner in the Webcomic genre, Sinfest's got quite a page and quite a lot of related pages (that mostly link to sunday comics).
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tricksterson



Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 396

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

merest wrote:
ShadowCell wrote:
here we see the Pedantasaurus dunning-krugerii, a slow-witted herbivore that tries to use brittle spine plates and an enlarged, thick skull to appear more intimidating than it actually is...


I don't know how you knew I was a vegetarian, but my spine plates are in fact as well-armoured as my skull. *hits you with my snout*
Okay, I don't care what your stand on this strip is, you get points for amusing me.

My own stand is that neither the customer nor Maverick was really in the wrong. He had no way of knowing she was sentient and she was defending herself against molestation. She also gets points for just disarming the salesclerk who, again, had no way of knowing that she wasn't just a rogue piece of machinery.
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Moor



Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 276

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trickster -- I would agree with you, if all of these people weren't already established and/or deliberate symbols, and buying a fembot wasn't explicitly treating women as objects to be bought for sex. Without the context of the rest of the strip, yes, they are machinery. However, when you consider it in context, the fembots are human beings who are being told to lie back and take anything. She's not reacting to unwitting and unintentional molestation -- she's reacting to someone literally thinking of other people as objects, and then assuming that she'll be a "good girl" and let him treat her like it. She disarms the salesclerk, who yes, tried to reprogram her because she was malfunctioning -- which, de-metaphor-ed, means that she had the audacity, the total disregard for society, to actual think of herself as not an object but a human being.

If you're only going to look at this one comic, then yes, it might be valid to think of the customer as the victim of a misunderstanding. But once you actually consider what everything stands for, this comic is saying that if you're at the point where you're making that misunderstanding, you're already wrong.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6074

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jesus fucking Christ, it honestly scares me how many people are willing to defend sexual assault as a 'misunderstanding'.
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Jody



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:
Jesus fucking Christ, it honestly scares me how many people are willing to defend sexual assault as a 'misunderstanding'.


This.

It's pretty obvious what the fembots are supposed to represent. And if you don't get it, you're making it a point not to do so, because you don't like the message.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 10067
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jody wrote:
Samsally wrote:
Jesus fucking Christ, it honestly scares me how many people are willing to defend sexual assault as a 'misunderstanding'.


This.

It's pretty obvious what the fembots are supposed to represent. And if you don't get it, you're making it a point not to do so, because you don't like the message.

That's pretty much the definition of 'willful ignorance'

But your honor, she looked like merchandise for sale, how was I supposed to know I couldn't look up her skirt.
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Jody



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yessir.

People that think they can win an argument by declaring they're too stupid to get the message just baffle me.
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