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DeD CHiKn



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 10223
Location: Baltimore, Maryla*gunshot*

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
now, i'm not a firearms expert, but i was taught that when you handle a gun, you keep the barrel pointed _down_ unless you are actually shooting at something. so i'm not clear how he managed to accidentally fire it through his ceiling.


going by the context given he sounds like an idiot. Or that's not the actual case and he intentionally did it.

Either way he's an idiot.
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Mindslicer



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1800
Location: North of the People's Republic of Massachusetts

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
Mindslicer wrote:

CA has some of the most onerous licensing requirements in the country, not to protect people, but to scoop up as much revenue as possible while ensuring that politically connected business owners are protected from 'unfair competition.' These laws tend also to cause no small amount of harm to the poor and to minorities, but I'm sure that's more the fault of all the Republicans running things in the Golden State.


you mean the one who steadfastly refused to allow any sort of tax increase, so the only way the state could increase revenues was to raise fees? you are probably right.


Oh, right. Poor California. Strapped with only between $100 and $120 billion of other people's money each year for the last five years to work with. How could anyone survive on such a pittance?
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Mindslicer



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1800
Location: North of the People's Republic of Massachusetts

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
from here:
Quote:
NBC News' Pete Williams noted that many people are authorized to carry firearms at Navy Yard.

oh and:
Quote:
Survellance video shows the gunman entered the NAVSEA building, at 1336 Isaac Hull Ave., with a shotgun, law enforcement officials told News4's Jackie Bensen.

He shot a security officer in the head, killing him, and took his 9 mm pistol and a magazine of ammunition.


so he started by going to the one person that anyone would have expected to be carrying a gun. yes, this guy was definitely deterred by the prospect of facing armed opponents!


None of that contradicts what CTrees said.
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CTrees



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As more information about the shooter's arrests comes out, I'm really wondering how this guy got/kept a security clearance. Given how minor some of the stuff we've had people lose clearances over is, I would have thought he'd be excluded, no question. This is beyond "why was he still able to buy a gun" - the fact that he could still work on Secret contracts is disconcerting.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 10277
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CTrees wrote:
As more information about the shooter's arrests comes out, I'm really wondering how this guy got/kept a security clearance. Given how minor some of the stuff we've had people lose clearances over is, I would have thought he'd be excluded, no question. This is beyond "why was he still able to buy a gun" - the fact that he could still work on Secret contracts is disconcerting.

Yeah, I wanna say the root is less about gun control and more about failing of the criminal justice institutions for not properly recognizing the potential need for this guy to receive mental healthcare treatment.
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CTrees



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 3772

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah... as to the gun control aspect, this was in DC (roughly tied for toughest gun laws in the country), in a Naval base (even tougher). Harsh anti-gun laws didn't help. Further, most reports are now showing that he went in with a shotgun, ambushed a guard, took the guards pistol and rifle, and used those. That same tactic would work if he had hit the guard in the back of the head with a lead pipe, or a big stick, so even if only the police and military had guns, it would seem like this still could have happened exactly the same way. The Boston Bombers improved their guns by ambushing and killing a security guard as well.
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fritterdonut



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
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Location: Hedonism

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was under the impression that federal law prohibits felons from owning guns. Assuming he was charged with unlawful discharge of a firearm within city limits and destruction of property when he shot that car's tires out, he's definitely a felon.

From that, I'd assume it was either an illegal street purchase, or a straw purchase.

Perhaps the law should start coming down on people who make straw purchases, both the buyer and the seller. Set up some stings, catch the people who are willing to buy legal guns and supply them to felons, and catch the felons who are trying to procure firearms.

DeD CHiKn wrote:
mouse wrote:
now, i'm not a firearms expert, but i was taught that when you handle a gun, you keep the barrel pointed _down_ unless you are actually shooting at something. so i'm not clear how he managed to accidentally fire it through his ceiling.


going by the context given he sounds like an idiot. Or that's not the actual case and he intentionally did it.

Either way he's an idiot.


Now, I think it was completely intentional, given the previous noise complaints and his apparent mental unhinged-ness. However, a very common gun rack/holder design relies on the gun sitting on the buttplate, with the barrel sticking upwards. There are also special mount systems for holding the rifle horizontal while doing work on it. In either of those situations, if the rifle was accidentally discharged, it would go through a wall or the ceiling.

And that's why it's important you make sure everything is completely unloaded and safe before you start doing any kind of maintenance or cleaning.
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Last edited by fritterdonut on Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 12123
Location: Unknown Kaddath

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fritterdonut wrote:
I was under the impression that federal law prohibits felons from owning guns. Assuming he was charged with unlawful discharge of a firearm within city limits and destruction of property when he shot that car's tires out, he's definitely a felon.

Assuming he was convicted, you mean. You're not a felon just because you get arrested. Apparently in that incident he was released without being convicted, on the condition that he leave those construction workers alone.
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fritterdonut



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
Posts: 1171
Location: Hedonism

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
fritterdonut wrote:
I was under the impression that federal law prohibits felons from owning guns. Assuming he was charged with unlawful discharge of a firearm within city limits and destruction of property when he shot that car's tires out, he's definitely a felon.

Assuming he was convicted, you mean. You're not a felon just because you get arrested. Apparently in that incident he was released without being convicted, on the condition that he leave those construction workers alone.


What the actual fuck..?

I assumed a conviction because it blows my mind that someone could actually get away with that shit.
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently there's a lot of that in his history.
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fritterdonut



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
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Location: Hedonism

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
Apparently there's a lot of that in his history.


It's pretty awful to think that if at some point they had actually come down on him this might not have happened.

To me, it almost seems like criminal negligence to let someone get away with an act (shooting out the car tires) that obviously shows they're disturbed, violent, and have no qualms being a danger to the public.
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Mindslicer



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1800
Location: North of the People's Republic of Massachusetts

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fritterdonut wrote:
WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
fritterdonut wrote:
I was under the impression that federal law prohibits felons from owning guns. Assuming he was charged with unlawful discharge of a firearm within city limits and destruction of property when he shot that car's tires out, he's definitely a felon.

Assuming he was convicted, you mean. You're not a felon just because you get arrested. Apparently in that incident he was released without being convicted, on the condition that he leave those construction workers alone.


What the actual fuck..?

I assumed a conviction because it blows my mind that someone could actually get away with that shit.


Plea bargains are rather common. Depending on the details of the situation, law enforcement likely presented him with a laundry list of charges for which they could prosecute in order to convince him to plead guilty to lesser charges. DA gets a boost to his conviction rating, expensive court time is avoided, suspect feels lucky he didn't go to jail for something worse.

One example I know of from a LEO friend of mine was a colleague involved in a situation where a drunk guy threw an empty beer can at a passing cop car and was threatened with, among other things, going to court for the felony charge of inciting a riot. The reason he was technically able to be charged with inciting a riot was that there were more than two other people in his apartment at the time (he threw the can from his porch), which, as the law is written in NH, counted as a large enough group of people to qualify. Guy didn't want to risk going to court over it, so he agreed to plead guilty to disorderly conduct or somesuch.
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TIAB



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 683

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More "news" about why the older generations are entirely justified in treating Gen Y like crap.

Fucking propaganda against an entire generation of people... this is pretty fucking despicable.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 10277
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TIAB wrote:
More "news" about why the older generations are entirely justified in treating Gen Y like crap.

Fucking propaganda against an entire generation of people... this is pretty fucking despicable.

Well, the article started out OK, but then went to utter garbage, it treats the symptom of unmet expectations as a cause.
I mean, it's not like major corporations are enjoying greater profits than ever or that the American manufacturing base was moved over seas, or elsewhere out of the country, during the decades the GYPSY's were still kids and teenagers, moved in fact by the baby boomers aka Gen Y's parents. And that's just tip of the iceberg. But it's Gen Y's fault they're expectations weren't met, no external factors that were beyond their control, they just need to stop whining . . .
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Moor



Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 318

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TIAB wrote:
More "news" about why the older generations are entirely justified in treating Gen Y like crap.

Fucking propaganda against an entire generation of people... this is pretty fucking despicable.


Ooh, check it out! They already set themselves up to argue No True Scotsman in the first two paragraphs!

Also, they had a fun time cherry picking their data, because 1985 just, by completely coincidence, happens to be pat of the graph where "a secure career" peaked. And if you actually look at the graphs they used, you'll notice that "a secure career" has actually been pretty much the same over the times we're considering (especially when you look at the graph for just "career" alongside it, but I don't know how to do two different scales on these things).

Also worth noticing (same graph as above), is that the drop in "a secure career" is more than made up for by "a stable job". So obviously our carefree attitude is evidenced by *DramaticGasp* a change in wording.

(Yes, "a stable job" has dropped recently. This is caused by the fact that nobody has "a stable job" anymore.)

My theory for the reason we're unhappy? We've grown up with everyone trying to convince us of stuff using this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gha2PXm_ip4
And when they realized we were catching on, this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqEjnUkbB-Y
And every "I know you know I know you know..." thing that this wonderful trend has blossomed into (I'm specifically looking at the "Daft Punk 'Cancels' on Colbert" ad-in-the-middle-of-the-program, if just because I was actually watching for that).

And as a final note, did anyone else imagine the author yelling "Get your unicorns off my lawn!"?
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