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Nov. 13: Wait a bit, now!
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fake account



Joined: 21 Oct 2011
Posts: 13
Location: lurking

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yinello wrote:
DUMBLEDORE'S A MARY SUE PASS IT ON

Mary Sue is a silly term really. I ran Bono, main singer of U2, through the test one and he scored like 95%. And he's a real person people like.

Tho I get the feeling Wobster said it in jest concerning the others who yelled Mary Sue at random characters.


Well, original characters can't really be Mary Sues, unless they are terribly written obvious author inserts like the characters from Twilight (or Bono).

I don't know why but I find the idea of Bono being a Mary Sue incredibly amusing
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3129
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Echo wrote:
Felgraf wrote:
In traditional western culture, aren't witches generally considered having consorted with the devil at one point?

That could add an interesting twist. (Not saying that IS where Tats is going, or if he'll pull from that bit of folklore. Basically I'm Wild Mass Guessing here.)


I think this consorting-with-the-devil thing is a portrayal of witches and their behaviour, by people who want an excuse to burn alleged witches*. I've not particularly asked, but I've not heard of any particular consorting-with-the-devil aspects to Wicca or any other form of witchcraft from acquaintances who've been in to that sort of thing. I think that's just a convenient accusation to make, based on crossover of some imagery, in a Christian community, against someone who believes (or seems to believe) in something else.

*Alleged witch may not contain any actual witch. No refunds!


Echo said 'in Western culture.' The whole witch burning craze was predicated on the idea that witches consorted with the devil and were evil. So while Wiccans and modern Neo-pagans don't have anything to do with the devil, that doesn't mean there isn't a classic Western idea that witches worship and have sex with Satan.

There was a really good book written about the witch panics called "Servants of Satan" that goes into great detail about what the witch panics across Europe and in the USA were like and why they were so bad. It is not too big a read, and was very enlightening.
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enchantedsleeper



Joined: 16 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fake account wrote:
Well, original characters can't really be Mary Sues, unless they are terribly written obvious author inserts like the characters from Twilight (or Bono).

I don't know why but I find the idea of Bono being a Mary Sue incredibly amusing


Do you mean to say "real people can't really be Mary Sues"? Because original characters absolutely can. An incredibly obvious author insert is still an original character, if we're using it in the fanfic sense of distinguishing it from fanon characters. And if we're not talking about fanfic, then isn't every character an original character?

An amusing thought just occurred though - if we're talking about obvious author inserts as Mary Sues, then wouldn't that make Master the resident Sinfest Mary Sue? xD

I know, I know, he's not idealised or anything, but the thought just entertained me.
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Echo



Joined: 18 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
a classic Western idea that witches worship and have sex with Satan.


One that's at odds with, from what I gather, the historical practices of the community being portrayed.

So in the context of Nana, that would equate to everyone accusing her of working for Big D when she's never actually done so.
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wobster109



Joined: 12 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heretical Rants wrote:
(snip)
Mary Sue's a nasty term to be throwing around like that, yea? Might as well say Dumbledore's a Mary Sue for the first handful of books too, then, and I've never heard anyone say that.


Oh dear, I spoke carelessly and didn't think about how it would sound. I'm really sorry. I didn't mean it that way. Sad

Nana is super-powerful and good at everything, and I love that about her! I love watching her take down evil, speed-knit for the cold and mistreated, and generally be an awesome champion. When I said "Mary-Sue", I meant all the superhero aspects of her, and none of the criticism. She's one of my favorite characters.

Anyways I'm sorry for my thoughtless wording. "Superhero" or "badass" would've been a better choice. And thanks for calling me out! Fighting that sort of dismissiveness makes you a hero too. Smile
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

enchantedsleeper wrote:

An amusing thought just occurred though - if we're talking about obvious author inserts as Mary Sues, then wouldn't that make Master the resident Sinfest Mary Sue? xD

I know, I know, he's not idealised or anything, but the thought just entertained me.


In a way, sure Razz But it's not a bad thing. I'm all for self-inserts as long as they're done in a meaningful way, be it for meta, for fun or otherwise.

@wobster: I'm all for turning the meaning behind Mary-Sue to bad-ass. From now on, all badasses are Mary Sues. Say it forth.
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Echo wrote:
Quote:
a classic Western idea that witches worship and have sex with Satan.


One that's at odds with, from what I gather, the historical practices of the community being portrayed.

So in the context of Nana, that would equate to everyone accusing her of working for Big D when she's never actually done so.


Are you a neopagan?

A lot of the people who were tortured were Christians. It was poor people,women, the elderly, and foreigners who were targets. Pagans who persisted after Christianity took hold would have been accused, but the 'witch' in this case is a made-up figure through which authority figures punished a lot of innocent people.

Recognizing that historical context doesn't hurt modern neopagans.

And Nana could have worked for Big D if Tat is using the old idea that witches work for the devil, sothat was mentioned. That's not an accusation - and given that many in Sinfest work for the literal Devil who literally exists, it is a probable idea worth consideration. It's a question, one asked because no one here knows what Tat has planned.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Echo wrote:
Quote:
a classic Western idea that witches worship and have sex with Satan.


One that's at odds with, from what I gather, the historical practices of the community being portrayed.

So in the context of Nana, that would equate to everyone accusing her of working for Big D when she's never actually done so.


I'm thinking that her connection is not with Big D.

It's with Lilith somehow.
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Echo



Joined: 18 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I thought of Lilith too. But if there was a connection between Nana and Lilith, wouldn't we have seen more of Nana looking after, or at least looking out for Lil' E in Lilith's absence?
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Geareye



Joined: 21 Mar 2013
Posts: 255

PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Echo wrote:
Yeah, I thought of Lilith too. But if there was a connection between Nana and Lilith, wouldn't we have seen more of Nana looking after, or at least looking out for Lil' E in Lilith's absence?


That's because Nana sees all and knows all. She knows Lil'E is on his own path of helping himself and she knows he has Pebbles with him for the times when he's troubled. Therefore she doesn't interfere. She takes care of her flowers but she doesn't drown them with more water than they need. Nana knows. Nana is love and balance, comfort and inspiration. Nana is Buddha.


Not that Buddha, but you get my point.
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wobster109



Joined: 12 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Yinello! Mary Sue being reclaimed and redefined would be awesome!

Nana does seem a lot like a fighting Buddha, especially with that bun on her head ^^
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MerchManDan



Joined: 20 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If broompilot Nana bumps into cloudcruiser Bood, I would not be surprised.
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