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2013-11-15: Sociopath
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MerchManDan



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:04 am    Post subject: 2013-11-15: Sociopath Reply with quote



I was unaware that spontaneity was a sign of sociopathy. Neutral
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeeeeah, we wouldn't use a word with such nice connotations. We say "impulsivity," as in, "That's a nice bike, I'ma take that bike."
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merest



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if Slick's refrigerated heart is meant to invert the Girlfriend in the Refrigerator Syndrome in some fashion.
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you mean women in refrigerators? And I don't see how, since that trope is about women characters being used as props to further a man character's story while doing nothing whatever for the woman character's story. It isn't just a part of them that goes in - they have to be killed. Plus, Slick literally did this to himself by locking his heart in a box so no one could hurt it.
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merest



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
I think you mean women in refrigerators? And I don't see how, since that trope is about women characters being used as props to further a man character's story while doing nothing whatever for the woman character's story. It isn't just a part of them that goes in - they have to be killed. Plus, Slick literally did this to himself by locking his heart in a box so no one could hurt it.


This comic takes pains not to use its female characters as props furthering the male characters' stories. Hence I thought strips like this might invert the Women in Refrigerator Syndrome by iceboxing the part of one male character that has caused him to use others in this way - by which I mean, as props for his ego, selfishly, not connecting on any heart-felt level as though they were real people, etc. I am not arguing that it is definitely the intent of Mr. Ishida. It just struck me as a possibility.
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enchantedsleeper



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

merest wrote:
This comic takes pains not to use its female characters as props furthering the male characters' stories. Hence I thought strips like this might invert the Women in Refrigerator Syndrome by iceboxing the part of one male character that has caused him to use others in this way - by which I mean, as props for his ego, selfishly, not connecting on any heart-felt level as though they were real people, etc. I am not arguing that it is definitely the intent of Mr. Ishida. It just struck me as a possibility.


That's a very layered interpretation. I like it, although I'm not sure whether it's what Tat was going for specifically. But hey, doesn't mean you can't still enjoy the nuance anyway.
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But this furthers Slick's story, not someone else's. It would be cool to see that trope inverted and played with, but I still don't see anything like it here.
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tricksterson



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh Slick, if you were a sociopath the thought of being one wouldn't bother you. Still it's nice to see him working on his heart.
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fritterdonut



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sociopathy is poorly defined term that can refer to ASPD or any number of other behavioral subsets of psychopathy. Being "cold, unfeeling, heartless" and "incapable of love" are not,by themselves, symptoms of either ASPD or psychopathy, the latter of which generally also has an element of dominance and violence, while the former generally revolves around a lack of conscience and disregard for the rights of others. And combined they come with a laundry list of other symptoms such as histories of violent behavior, lack of behavioral control, lack of fear, and compulsive lying.

In short, an antisocial person is not necessarily a sociopath.
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Technically neither sociopathy nor psychopathy are found in the diagnostic manuals used in the US (DSM-5) or anywhere else (ICD-10). The APA (who publishes the DSM) say antisocial personality disorder (ASPD) is sociopathy is psychopathy. Researchers, especially those at the NIMH (the largest funding body for mental health research in the world), say ASPD and psychopathy are different things. ICD-10 (used everywhere the DSM isn't) has updated their diagnoses so that "dissocial (antisocial) personality disorder" now includes psychopathy and sociopathy... but again, some pretty fancy researchers think this merely combines two separate but similar personality traits into one diagnosis. So, really, no one agrees on what the definitions are, or how they fit together, but the main thing is that if you want to bill insurance for it you call it antisocial personality disorder and that's that.
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fritterdonut



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
Technically neither sociopathy nor psychopathy are found in the diagnostic manuals used in the US (DSM-5) or anywhere else (ICD-10). The APA (who publishes the DSM) say antisocial personality disorder (ASPD) is sociopathy is psychopathy. Researchers, especially those at the NIMH (the largest funding body for mental health research in the world), say ASPD and psychopathy are different things. ICD-10 (used everywhere the DSM isn't) has updated their diagnoses so that "dissocial (antisocial) personality disorder" now includes psychopathy and sociopathy... but again, some pretty fancy researchers think this merely combines two separate but similar personality traits into one diagnosis. So, really, no one agrees on what the definitions are, or how they fit together, but the main thing is that if you want to bill insurance for it you call it antisocial personality disorder and that's that.


Yes, but the point I was trying to make was that people who are antisocial don't necessarily have ASPD (or psychopathy, or sociopathy), because ASPD implies you are (generally) maliciously antisocial - you harm others through antisocial actions.
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, sure. Sorry, I got stuck on the bit about definitions of things that don't actually have set definitions. You're right, though. Everyone has tendencies of a mental illness or two. I have anxious habits, but I don't have an anxiety disorder. People who get anxious if their desk is a mess are exhibiting obsessive compulsive tendencies. The only thing that separates that weird thing you do from a diagnosable illness is whether it's bad enough to inhibit your normal daily functioning. Which is my favorite thing about mental health, we're all a little crazy.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so i can be antisocial because i hate everybody, but it's ok as long as i don't try to kill them, right?
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or manipulate them or violate their rights or abuse them in some way that makes you a danger to them or interferes with your daily functioning (such as by going to jail or being hospitalized for getting beat up or getting fired for acting like Gordon Gecko, etc).

Other than that, you can be as antisocial as you like.
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Leohan



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ASPD is more than anything defined by the lack of empathy, not by malicious intent. Sure, not caring about the feelings and lives of others might eliminate some cons of harming people due to the lack of regrets, but there are no compulsive needs involved in it.

Extreme selfishness, one might call it. But the furthering of one's objectives doesn't always involve screwing other people over.
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