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Dogen
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 11274
Location: PDX
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 Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Ennis wrote: | | I thought people might pick up on it after Stripey's post, but it's not just women who get periods, have uteri, etc. I know most people are cis but when people talk about stuff with words like "female experience" and "women's organs" it makes me pretty uncomfortable. Not to mention trans women who are basically implied to then not be a woman/have "female" parts because they don't bleed out of a uterus. It reminds me of a particularly horrible exchange I saw where a whole bunch of TERFs ganged up on a trans woman who was talking about having cramps because she was "appropriating women's experiences" and thought she was faking since she "couldn't have periods". They were pretty goddamn nasty, lots of misgendering. Turns out that cramps are caused by hormones and some other stuff, not just having a uterus, so she was pretty much experiencing exactly the kind of pain that cis women on their periods have. Someone even wrote in to tell them a cis friend who didn't have a uterus (can't remember why) had the same thing. |
This is something I'm still not very good at... so when talking about menstruation specifically, what would be the preferred phrase? People who experience menstruation? Do trans men experience menstruation? (EDIT: answered this one through noodling and googling)
Now I'm curious what is contracting to cause pain in trans women. Prostaglandins are associated with pain (more prostaglandins = more pain), but the prostaglandins originate in the tissue of the uterus (the endometrium). When the endometrium breaks down after ovulation it releases the prostaglandins, which trigger uterine contractions and cramping. So... where are the prostaglandins coming from in trans women, and what's cramping? I must investigate! Awaaaaay! *swipes cape around himself and exits, stage left*
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Ennis
Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 992
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| LadySunami wrote: |
Out of curiosity, do men with uteri bleed monthly as well? If they're on testosterone supplements I mean. I am under the impression that high testosterone levels prevent the uterine cycle. |
Testosterone usually stops periods in people with functional uteri after awhile, the time it takes varies. I think there are some cases where it doesn't though. Not all trans men take testosterone, and there are also a lot of non-binaries who don't take hormones.
It's kind of hard to explain, as there are so many different ways trans* people see their bodies/organs. In mainstream discourse it's pretty much always simplified down to "born in the wrong body" which causes a LOT of issues. People figure it's okay to continue referring to vagina/uterus/boobs as women's parts because if trans women could they'd jump at the chance to become cis (if they try to justify it at all that is, often the fact that even binary trans people exist is forgotten). But I know trans women who don't want a vagina, who consider their penis to be a "female organ" since it's attached to a woman and they don't feel dysphoric about it. Not to mention, even with trans women who do want bottom surgery, it's extremely expensive and inaccessible to a lot of people. But there are (often well-off) trans women and men who will try to ingratiate themselves with cis society by claiming that one is not fully a man/woman until one has had "all of the surgeries" and looks "passable", policing other trans people who they don't think are "trans enough". For some reason they think if they can weed out all the "fakers" cis people will stop being transphobic and accept them, the "true transsexuals" as one of their own. This... doesn't really work, and especially doesn't work in relation to non-binaries. It's kind of the trans equivalent of women shitting on other women to show they're "not like those other bitches".
I kind of got off-track, but the basic gist is that trans* people see their bodies in all sorts of different ways. Some are fine with aspects of themselves that others might think would be incongruent with their gender, others feel great distress about these parts. Others still are not in great distress, but would feel better/do feel better getting surgery or taking hormones.
Speaking from personal experience, as someone who has periods and is not a woman (and also not really a man), I dislike them but basically I'm not that fussed. I don't get that much pain, mostly it's inconvenient and annoying. I actually kind of forget that it's a body function I have, until I do and then it's "oh great this again". I deal with it, I forget about it all over again, repeat. Basically I don't want them, I'm never going to be pregnant (asexual on top of whatever gender feelings) so it's just a side effect of having a function I didn't sign up for. |
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eureka00
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 2068
Location: Pretzel City
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| Dogen wrote: | | Ennis wrote: | | I thought people might pick up on it after Stripey's post, but it's not just women who get periods, have uteri, etc. I know most people are cis but when people talk about stuff with words like "female experience" and "women's organs" it makes me pretty uncomfortable. Not to mention trans women who are basically implied to then not be a woman/have "female" parts because they don't bleed out of a uterus. It reminds me of a particularly horrible exchange I saw where a whole bunch of TERFs ganged up on a trans woman who was talking about having cramps because she was "appropriating women's experiences" and thought she was faking since she "couldn't have periods". They were pretty goddamn nasty, lots of misgendering. Turns out that cramps are caused by hormones and some other stuff, not just having a uterus, so she was pretty much experiencing exactly the kind of pain that cis women on their periods have. Someone even wrote in to tell them a cis friend who didn't have a uterus (can't remember why) had the same thing. |
This is something I'm still not very good at... so when talking about menstruation specifically, what would be the preferred phrase? People who experience menstruation? Do trans men experience menstruation? (EDIT: answered this one through noodling and googling)
Now I'm curious what is contracting to cause pain in trans women. Prostaglandins are associated with pain (more prostaglandins = more pain), but the prostaglandins originate in the tissue of the uterus (the endometrium). When the endometrium breaks down after ovulation it releases the prostaglandins, which trigger uterine contractions and cramping. So... where are the prostaglandins coming from in trans women, and what's cramping? I must investigate! Awaaaaay! *swipes cape around himself and exits, stage left* |
The hormones can cause breast tenderness/pain, mood swings, increased sex drive, etc monthly in trans or cis. Some people are more sensitive to hormones, but I've never heard about the cramping for trans because there's no uterus. Most everything I've researched here just keeps talking about the hormonal period symptoms. I'm stumped.
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Eureka00: "Reminding you of your addictions" since 1982. |
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mouse
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 21163
Location: under the bed
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Samsally wrote: |
At one point he gave us the story about how waiting makes things better. Like "There were two girls" because of course they were girls, nobody talks to guys like this... anyway, "There are two girls and they're both given a marshmallow and told they can have another marshmallow if they wait five minutes before eating the first one. The girl that ate her marshmallow before the five minutes was up was sad." And like I guess the moral of the story was waiting makes things better but that makes NO FUCKING SENSE |
actually, the moral of the story seems to be if you wait you get more sex...which i suspect is not really what he meant it to be.
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aka: neverscared!
a flux of vibrant matter |
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eureka00
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 2068
Location: Pretzel City
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| mouse wrote: | | Samsally wrote: |
At one point he gave us the story about how waiting makes things better. Like "There were two girls" because of course they were girls, nobody talks to guys like this... anyway, "There are two girls and they're both given a marshmallow and told they can have another marshmallow if they wait five minutes before eating the first one. The girl that ate her marshmallow before the five minutes was up was sad." And like I guess the moral of the story was waiting makes things better but that makes NO FUCKING SENSE |
actually, the moral of the story seems to be if you wait you get more sex...which i suspect is not really what he meant it to be. |
Wonder if any girls who listened to him brought a bag of marshmallows for their first sexual encounter. "Yes! I can finally eat them!"
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Eureka00: "Reminding you of your addictions" since 1982. |
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Istancow
Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Posts: 1107
Location: Chamber of the House of Lords, Palace of Westminister
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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HISTORIC, HISTORIC INDEED.
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Good day, good people! |
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Dogen
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 11274
Location: PDX
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Shit, I better think of something clever to say for my 10,000th post.
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"Worse comes to worst, my people come first, but my tribe lives on every country on earth. I’ll do anything to protect them from hurt, the human race is what I serve." - Baba Brinkman |
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Dogen
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 11274
Location: PDX
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Oops.
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"Worse comes to worst, my people come first, but my tribe lives on every country on earth. I’ll do anything to protect them from hurt, the human race is what I serve." - Baba Brinkman |
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ShadowCell
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 7395
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| quick, crash the forums and erase the last couple days so he can have another chance |
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Dogen
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 11274
Location: PDX
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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That really didn't work out the way I planned the last two times I tried it, I don't think I should do it again.
_________________
"Worse comes to worst, my people come first, but my tribe lives on every country on earth. I’ll do anything to protect them from hurt, the human race is what I serve." - Baba Brinkman |
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Ennis
Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 992
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| eureka00 wrote: |
The hormones can cause breast tenderness/pain, mood swings, increased sex drive, etc monthly in trans or cis. Some people are more sensitive to hormones, but I've never heard about the cramping for trans because there's no uterus. Most everything I've researched here just keeps talking about the hormonal period symptoms. I'm stumped. |
I am admittedly quoting from memory from random people off the internet, but I think it has something to do with releasing whatever hormone concoction happens during a menstrual cycle and the body expects there to be a uterus and so contracting the appropriate abdominal muscles, but since there isn't a uterus all it causes is, well, cramps. |
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eureka00
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 2068
Location: Pretzel City
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Ennis wrote: | | eureka00 wrote: |
The hormones can cause breast tenderness/pain, mood swings, increased sex drive, etc monthly in trans or cis. Some people are more sensitive to hormones, but I've never heard about the cramping for trans because there's no uterus. Most everything I've researched here just keeps talking about the hormonal period symptoms. I'm stumped. |
I am admittedly quoting from memory from random people off the internet, but I think it has something to do with releasing whatever hormone concoction happens during a menstrual cycle and the body expects there to be a uterus and so contracting the appropriate abdominal muscles, but since there isn't a uterus all it causes is, well, cramps. |
Definitely a strange hormonal reaction, but everyone's body reacts differently to that stuff.
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Eureka00: "Reminding you of your addictions" since 1982. |
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