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Snorri



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fritterdonut wrote:
I think he's trying to say that despite it being a joke clip, the way it depicts people who argue for keeping Zwarte Piet is correct?

Which isn't necessarily true because I've actually heard some decent (IE not "It's tradition") arguments for why Zwarte Piet exists (a difference in cultural perception, an alternate more friendly version of Krampus, etc).

That's not to say that it's a good thing, but the video doesn't really do the issue justice, in my opinion.


Eh, most of those arguments only make sense because they flat-out ignore the racist aspect. Like the bollocks about him just being black because of the soot from the chimney. It's not actually true even if some people really believe it.

Zwarte Piet is clearly meant to be a black guy. This was even more blatant in the past when he talked in a "black" (surinam) accent or that time a bunch of black sailors who happened to be at the harbour were recruited to play them.
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.npr.org/2013/12/05/136590582/nelson-mandela-inspiration-to-world-dies-at-95
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mouse



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so all this discussion of Black Pete had me looking up why Sinterklaas would have such a companion, and it all just gets weirder and weirder. because it seems Pete is actually a Moor (i.e., a North African Muslim), and not an subsaharan African of the sort usually represented by blackface (e.g., in the American minstrel tradition). it does make a bit of sense that Sinterklaas would have a Moorish servant, since he comes from Spain, so Pete is presumably one of the people left over after the Spanish Reconquista. although this means he also must have survived the spanish inquisition, which makes one wonder that he would be serving a Christian saint.

although since St. Nicholas was a Greek from Turkey and apparently had no connection with Spain, maybe he was an OK guy to work for.


that still leaves us with why St. Nick apparently summers in Spain, rather than Turkey. so now i apparently have to look at exchange rates and the cost of vacation rentals.




i'm so glad that, as an American, I get a sensible Santa Claus who lives at the North Pole and employs elves. you Dutch people should just go with him, and then you won't have to worry about why you would want to present Muslims in blackface. i mean, really - where's the romance in a guy who just hops on a boat to come visit?
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Snorri



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
so all this discussion of Black Pete had me looking up why Sinterklaas would have such a companion, and it all just gets weirder and weirder. because it seems Pete is actually a Moor (i.e., a North African Muslim), and not an subsaharan African of the sort usually represented by blackface (e.g., in the American minstrel tradition).


The figure itself has aspects of a lot of different cultural figures and ideas, much like Sinterklaas himself. His current look is heavily inspired by the blackface tradition that was quite popular in multiple countries in the West. Like, the colonies persisted way into the last century so that kind of racism was as alive in Europe as in the USA.


And keep in mind that the best historians not only make up their own shit but borrow from others who also made up a lot of shit. Moor can mean anything from the blackest of black to the whitest of white, it's a good short-hand for "probably something african".
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mouse



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i still want to know why he comes from spain. honestly, at this point, this is the most random aspect of the whole thing to me.
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Him



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When people like David Cameron claim to pay tribute to Nelson Mandela (let's forget the Conservative Party's long standing support for Apartheid and Margareth Thatcher famously condemning Mandela as a terrorist shall we?) pieces like this become necessary: "Mandela will never, ever be your minstrel."

mouse wrote:
i still want to know why he comes from spain. honestly, at this point, this is the most random aspect of the whole thing to me.

Because he's a moor. They ruled Spain once, I've actually seen some very beautiful moorish architecture in Andalucia.
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CTrees



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-us-government-is-an-advanced-persistent-threat-7000024019/
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Snorri



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
i still want to know why he comes from spain. honestly, at this point, this is the most random aspect of the whole thing to me.


Maybe because Saint Nicholas' relics were stored in Bari which during quite a long time was part of the Spanish Empire.

As was the Netherlands. (or what was to become the Netherlands actually.) Claiming he came from Spain isn't much of a leap.


But that's all pretty unsubstantiated really. It could easily be the case that Sinterklaas comes from Spain because it made sense to some people and they build upon it. As said, making stuff up is easy and Spain was at least familiar to most people.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Him wrote:

mouse wrote:
i still want to know why he comes from spain. honestly, at this point, this is the most random aspect of the whole thing to me.

Because he's a moor. They ruled Spain once, I've actually seen some very beautiful moorish architecture in Andalucia.


wait - now Sinterklaas was a Moor? doesn't he pre-date Mohammed?
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CTrees



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unarmed Man Is Charged With Wounding Bystanders Shot by NYPD
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Mindslicer



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unarmed man charged with wounding two women in New York, even though the wounds sustained were from gunshots fired by police.

Quote:
An unarmed, emotionally disturbed man shot at by the police as he was lurching around traffic near Times Square in September has been charged with assault, on the theory that he was responsible for bullet wounds suffered by two bystanders, according to an indictment unsealed in State Supreme Court in Manhattan on Wednesday.

The man, Glenn Broadnax, 35, of Brooklyn, created a disturbance on Sept. 14, wading into traffic at 42nd Street and Eighth Avenue and throwing himself into the path of oncoming cars.

A curious crowd grew. Police officers arrived and tried to corral Mr. Broadnax, a 250-pound man. When he reached into his pants pocket, two officers, who, the police said, thought he was pulling a gun, opened fire, missing Mr. Broadnax, but hitting two nearby women. Finally, a police sergeant knocked Mr. Broadnax down with a Taser.

The shootings once again raised questions about the police use of firearms in crowded areas and drew comparisons to a shooting a year ago, when officers struck nine bystanders in front of the Empire State Building when they killed an armed murder suspect.

Initially Mr. Broadnax was arrested on misdemeanor charges of menacing, drug possession and resisting arrest. But the Manhattan district attorney’s office persuaded a grand jury to charge Mr. Broadnax with assault, a felony carrying a maximum sentence of 25 years. Specifically, the nine-count indictment unsealed on Wednesday said Mr. Broadnax “recklessly engaged in conduct which created a grave risk of death.”

“The defendant is the one that created the situation that injured innocent bystanders,” said an assistant district attorney, Shannon Lucey.


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mouse



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm sure this precedent will completely discourage any other emotionally disturbed people from causing a possibly dangerous disturbance!

especially the ones who are talking to dead people in their heads. i'm sure the dead people will remind them of the legal penalties the may face!
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Mindslicer



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can they also charge Bloomberg for assault for not ensuring his officers could hit a 250-lb. target at close range?
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They could charge the bystanders for creating a situation in which bystanders could be hurt. You know, by being around when a cop decides to pop off a few rounds.

It's the only right thing to do.

Other than pinning police misconduct on an "emotionally disturbed" person.
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The model legislation group ALEC is putting together a campaign to destroy government regulation of natural gas wells while also advocating extra burdens on home solar installations by government regulation and fees.
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