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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mindslicer wrote:
Yinello wrote:
Europe seriously needs to find ways to stop being so independant on Russia's gas. It's bullshit that we can't do more than just say angry words because we don't wanna be gasless. The news said we'd be fine, but countries like Italy might get in trouble if Russia closes the gas tap.


I think you mean 'dependent' here?

I'd heard a suggestion that the U.S. could release 500,000 barrels of oil per day into the market from our oil reserves in Texas and Louisiana in order to severely hurt Russia's economy. There are almost 700 million barrels in the Strategic Petroleum Reserve right now (http://www.spr.doe.gov/dir/dir.html), so we could do that for a couple of months without really putting a major dent into it.


Thanks, my English fails me sometimes.

Interesting. We also have oil from our coast and who knows, Saudi Arabia and Brunei might jump in.
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Mindslicer



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to Rachel Maddow, this Ukraine thing is Bush's fault.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While hyperbolic and fun to say, it sounds like what she's actually saying is that decisions made by his administration to enter two wars at the same time from which we have yet to be able to extricate ourselves have placed constraints on our ability to respond to other global and domestic situations. Despite being less partisan, doesn't that seem fairly rational? She even has the gall to suggest that if we hope to avoid the costs of fighting two wars at the same time in the future that we should learn from and understand what really happened in our history.

Personally, I think that sounds like witchcraft.
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fritterdonut



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't it American military doctrine that dictates the US Military should at all times be strong/ready enough to be able to fight 2 multi-front wars simultaneously?
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would think that kind of goes out the window when the other country involved is a nuclear power with probably the world's second-most powerful military and a permanent seat on the UN Security Council.

Even if the US really wanted to, there's just not much they can do about Ukraine.
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Felgraf



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26440668

Fascist ukranian army resistance fascistly resists russian army, meets them completely unarmed (like fascists would!) and in a fascist display of fascist unarmed resistance march towards the russian army even as shots are being fired over their heads. Like fascists.

/If my tongue were planted any further in my cheek, I would violate the pauli exclusion principle.
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WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Felgraf wrote:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26440668

Fascist ukranian army resistance fascistly resists russian army, meets them completely unarmed (like fascists would!) and in a fascist display of fascist unarmed resistance march towards the russian army even as shots are being fired over their heads. Like fascists.

/If my tongue were planted any further in my cheek, I would violate the pauli exclusion principle.

So you've got tongue planted fermion cheek?
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 17278
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fritterdonut wrote:
Isn't it American military doctrine that dictates the US Military should at all times be strong/ready enough to be able to fight 2 multi-front wars simultaneously?


and win them, too! that was the plan, anyway...of course, the whole iraq-afghanistan thing sorta showed up the problems with that (and i have to believe has at least as much to do with how putin views the u.s. as the fact that obama got syria to dispose of chemical weapons without sending in troops and acting all tough).

of course, that's one of the reasons the republicans are in hysterics about chuck hagel's suggestion we cut back the military a bit: how can we fight multiple wars at once if we cut back our military even though out military spending will still be far and away higher than anyone else's?
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mouse



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm.
Quote:
For the last few years, it has become something like conventional knowledge in Moscow journalistic circles that Putin was no longer getting good information, that he was surrounded by yes-men who created for him a parallel informational universe. "They're beginning to believe their own propaganda," Gleb Pavlovsky told me when I was in Moscow in December. Pavlovsky had been a close advisor to the early Putin, helping him win his first presidential election in 2000. (When, in 2011, Putin decided to return for a third term as president, Pavlovsky declared the old Putin dead.)


hmmm. that worked out so well for bush in the iraq invasion.
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fritterdonut



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Felgraf wrote:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26440668

Fascist ukranian army resistance fascistly resists russian army, meets them completely unarmed (like fascists would!) and in a fascist display of fascist unarmed resistance march towards the russian army even as shots are being fired over their heads. Like fascists.

/If my tongue were planted any further in my cheek, I would violate the pauli exclusion principle.


To be fair, I don't know anyone who is calling the Ukrainian military fascist. The Ukrainian military has pretty much kept it's nose out of the whole affair.

Now, some of the protesters, you might call fascist. And on both sides of the protest, too.

Meanwhile, Poland is knuckling down.
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Him



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Felgraf wrote:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26440668

Fascist ukranian army resistance fascistly resists russian army, meets them completely unarmed (like fascists would!) and in a fascist display of fascist unarmed resistance march towards the russian army even as shots are being fired over their heads. Like fascists.

/If my tongue were planted any further in my cheek, I would violate the pauli exclusion principle.

If this is aimed at me, for the record, I Think Svoboda are fascists. I don't think the entire Ukrainian government, let alone the Ukrainian army, are fascists. Also I know for a fact there have been Russian neo-nazis active in Ukraine before. So yeah, like fritterdonut said, you'll find fascists on both sides here.

Curious to see the Ukrainian troops march behind a hammer and sickle flag though, what does it signify in this instance?
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Echo



Joined: 18 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That they used to be on the same side as the Russian troops, as part of the same state?

Could also be some sort of battle standard for the unit; I don't quite know how the military divided with the split of the Soviet Union.

More broadly, I think it's there as a symbol of something that the Russian troops would really rather not shoot at.
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Felgraf



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Him wrote:
Felgraf wrote:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26440668

Fascist ukranian army resistance fascistly resists russian army, meets them completely unarmed (like fascists would!) and in a fascist display of fascist unarmed resistance march towards the russian army even as shots are being fired over their heads. Like fascists.

/If my tongue were planted any further in my cheek, I would violate the pauli exclusion principle.

If this is aimed at me, for the record, I Think Svoboda are fascists. I don't think the entire Ukrainian government, let alone the Ukrainian army, are fascists. Also I know for a fact there have been Russian neo-nazis active in Ukraine before. So yeah, like fritterdonut said, you'll find fascists on both sides here.

Curious to see the Ukrainian troops march behind a hammer and sickle flag though, what does it signify in this instance?


Fair enough, and if I remember something I read somewhere, the Hammer and Sickle flag is harkening back to some shared fighting they did during WW2 against the Nazi's (And there may have been some particular heroics from that Ukranian unit?). I'm hazy on the details.
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Him



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Felgraf wrote:
Him wrote:
Felgraf wrote:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26440668

Fascist ukranian army resistance fascistly resists russian army, meets them completely unarmed (like fascists would!) and in a fascist display of fascist unarmed resistance march towards the russian army even as shots are being fired over their heads. Like fascists.

/If my tongue were planted any further in my cheek, I would violate the pauli exclusion principle.

If this is aimed at me, for the record, I Think Svoboda are fascists. I don't think the entire Ukrainian government, let alone the Ukrainian army, are fascists. Also I know for a fact there have been Russian neo-nazis active in Ukraine before. So yeah, like fritterdonut said, you'll find fascists on both sides here.

Curious to see the Ukrainian troops march behind a hammer and sickle flag though, what does it signify in this instance?


Fair enough, and if I remember something I read somewhere, the Hammer and Sickle flag is harkening back to some shared fighting they did during WW2 against the Nazi's (And there may have been some particular heroics from that Ukranian unit?). I'm hazy on the details.

Speaking of that event though, here's an interesting take from a Russian leftwing academic:
Boris Kagarlitsky: ‘Polite intervention’ and the Ukrainian uprising
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Jinx



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to derail what seems to have become the Ukraine thread lately, but . . .


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