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The Anti-Sim
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6080
Location: California

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snorri wrote:
Sam wrote:
there's likely to be no single source blog for tatsuya's ideological inspiration. but i almost have the ideology of the strip mapped out completely (why i did this i have no idea, was i just bored) - only one large question about it remains


What's the question?


"can tat see why kids love the taste of cinnamon toast crunch?"
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Snorri



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 10878
Location: hiding the decline.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:
The speculation about Tat's change of direction in the comic has been around for quite a while, but people tend to forget that it wasn't immediately the feminist stuff, it's just lasting longer.

It kind of started with a simple "Today I'm vegan!" 'Nique strip (There were a lot of those back in the day) and then it became environmentalist and then it became democrat and then after a while it moved towards feminism.

I think Tat just decided to write for the causes that he deemed more important and when he ran into feminist blogs and such he said either 'As an artist I should communicate this so that people are better informed' or 'this is a fair cause and it'll give me so much material'

Not all that related... But even in the stronger defender's of Tat taking this path I've been noticing discomfort about it as for late. Is it just me perceiving it or is that the case?


An interesting issue I think is how critical Tat became of his earlier work when he started up with the feminism. It's not just him advocating feminism but also being critical of his own work and seeming to have a more personal relation to his work. With the feminism he is "my earlier work was sexist and wrong" a lot.
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 2765
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you guys said Megamind was awesome.

And you were right!

Buuuuuuuut I did love the beginning more than the ending. It got a bit (a lot) cliche with Roxanne of course being kidnapped (I get it she's the damsel but it was only funny when it was supposed to happen why didn't she become mega whyyy) and the "I believe in you" speech. End fight was pretty clever so can't complain.

All in all, much better than other hollywood crap I've seen lately. Now what's all this fanfiction I've been hearing?
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 10567
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yinello wrote:
So you guys said Megamind was awesome.

And you were right!

Buuuuuuuut I did love the beginning more than the ending. It got a bit (a lot) cliche with Roxanne of course being kidnapped (why didn't she become mega whyyy) and the "I believe in you" speech. End fight was pretty clever so can't complain.

All in all, much better than other hollywood crap I've seen lately. Now what's all this fanfiction I've been hearing?


The Spee-yider: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6lYzfapfQA
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arachnus Deathicus!
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't read a lot of megamind fanfiction because I have a lot of very pointed ideas of what I want it to be (god help me, i'm so bad at writing I can't talk myself into trying to write it out.)

but yooo if you write me megaroxxy I will draw you fanarts.

No really, if I want something written I've taken to trying to bribe people with art.

It only sometimes works.
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:
I don't read a lot of megamind fanfiction because I have a lot of very pointed ideas of what I want it to be (god help me, i'm so bad at writing I can't talk myself into trying to write it out.)

but yooo if you write me megaroxxy I will draw you fanarts.

No really, if I want something written I've taken to trying to bribe people with art.

It only sometimes works.


I have no probs trying my hand at MegaRox fanfiction as long as it's not an epic saga (I usually end up writing those and it always become extremely complicated). Give me your list of pointed ideas and I'll see if I can work it out (nothing graphic por favor, I suck at smut).
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snorri wrote:
Sam wrote:
there's likely to be no single source blog for tatsuya's ideological inspiration. but i almost have the ideology of the strip mapped out completely (why i did this i have no idea, was i just bored) - only one large question about it remains


What's the question?


"Is a male to female transsexual a woman, and are they allowed in women's only spaces? Or is that just a male appropriating an unowned identity and space for himself, and are women's only spaces for women born women only?"

the question is important because tatsuya's ideology has matched up 100% with second-wave anti-porn radfem (to the extent that you guys were even able to point out to me that the sisterhood promotes and distributes Andrea Dworkin), including pretty easily read markers for anti-porn second wave positions on pornography, sadomasochism, sex work, gender codification, and liberation minimums.

and second-wave anti-porn radfem, as an ideology, had mostly rejected the legitimacy of transgenderism, or the idea that a MtF trans person is a woman. If tatsuya were to answer "yes a mtf trans individual is female and it's totally fine for them to be in a women's only space" it would be the only place he would have (so far) meaningfully diverged from second wave anti porn radfeminism

To pick out a particularly emblematic example of this (in the sense of describing the logic that was behind trans-exclusionary feminism), there was the story of the Lesbian Organization of Toronto:

Quote:
L.O.O.T. was for womyn-born womyn only. A formal request to join the organization was made by a male-to-female transsexual lesbian in 1978. In response, the organization voted to exclude trans women. During informal discussion, members of L.O.O.T expressed their outrage that in their view a "sex-change he-creature...dared to identify himself as a woman and a lesbian." In their public response L.O.OT. wrote -

A woman's voice was almost never heard as a woman's voice - it was always filtered through men's voices. So here a guy comes along saying, "I'm going to be a girl now and speak for girls." And we thought, "No you're not." A person cannot just join the oppressed by fiat.


it is an interesting question to ask because the central MacKinnonesque theory that tat espouses in the strip is genuinely trans-exclusionary but Dworkin (despite having a number of issues I am seriously critical of her for) appears to have moved from or had some sort of milquetoast moving away from a few decades of supporting transphobic works ( http://transfeminism.tumblr.com/post/12371381560/andrea-dworkin-wasnt-a-friend-to-trans-people ) to possibly some indication of personal reform ( http://daisysdeadair.blogspot.com/2009/08/andrea-dworkin-on-transgender.html ) and so tat could legitimately be either way on this one
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

summary: i am insufferable and spent too long on social sciences
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A question only Tat can answer. I know my answer but I'm not the artist.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would definitely hope that, with all the indications that he's trying to be more sensitive and inclusive in general, and maybe even being mindful that intersectionality is a thing, (he's very lightly touched on race in this regard,) he would be more on the inclusive side for trans people as well. That's my hope.
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it is so far mostly ambiguous.

people who are hazarding a guess say that the only potent potential indicator is that there is absolutely zero acknowledged trans* character visibility in sinfest (is this true?) despite presentation of pretty much the entire cavalcade of other stuff, and nothing outside of the I guess couple of strips I remember with the trans-state zone where people genderbend

it leads people to put (slightly) more money on not-trans-inclusive ideology, or that it's entirely possible that it's a DRAMATIC opposite: the centrality and intensity of conflict theory feminism to the strip's zeitgeist is indicative of a journey in progress of the author's own gender self-discovery, as has .. seriously happened before in the webcomics world. multiple times.

but it's a bunch of silly potentially problematic outing-ey guesses so at least I get this huge armchair here to psychologize out of.
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Moor



Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 318

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
that there is absolutely zero acknowledged trans* character visibility in sinfest (is this true?) despite presentation of pretty much the entire cavalcade of other stuff.

Yeah, there haven't been any trans* characters.

That said, I don't really think there is "presentation of pretty much the entire cavalcade of other stuff.", despite how great that phrase is. (Unless I misunderstood it.)

We have well developed female characters, and a gay character who actually is a character instead of a stereotype as of pretty recently... and that's it? I think?
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's be honest though, most Sinfest characters don't have a lot of depth. It's only recently that Tat started really giving characters like Nique and Slick stories that defined who they could be. And even then it's still a load of gag comics most of the time.

Which is fine, not all comics need to be heavy. But it lessens the chance of a trans character because most people either go about it offensively or are afraid to screw it up.
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