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Feminism because why not make a thread for it?
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6634

PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yinello wrote:
So I know I should stop browsing reddit forever but apparantly I like reading horrible shit.

This topic was recently made in the girl friendly gaming sub
"The "Male Power Fantasy": what do women generally and actually find sexy?"

Pretty reasonable question and good answers up till now with varying opinions resulting from different ladies.

Then comes this guy:
"What do women generally and actually find sexy? Male power."

Of course someone's smart enough to ask why the fuck a straight guy (he's posted this before himself so we all know) would answer this question:
"Uhm.. are you a fella telling us what women find sexy?"

His response:
"No, I'm a marketer telling you what women who read romance novels' spending habits says they find sexy."

It's really embarassing when he starts talking about women who read romance novels in an area where women are obsessed with games (like most of us proudly post pictures of our habitat which always has computers and consoles and talk about how we wake up to read MMO Champion et al). But what really horrifies me is that this guy, a marketer, thinks that general stereotypes and tropes actually apply in real life. Even a group of women who read the same romance novels together could have a totally different idea of what they find sexy in a guy. It enrages me whenever people aren't considered to be individuals.

Advice for everyone: Less assuming, more research.


Ah yes, the 'because all women are a monolith' argument. What an asshat.

This is actually a large part of what makes me so uncomfortable about consumerism, marketing, and all that jazz. It's like stereotyping for fun and profit.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 10660
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is SOOOOOOOOO super indicative of what's wrong with modern business culture.

It boils down to "You don't need to be an expert in the industry your business is in, you just need to know the business of running a business."

That's why so many shitty, horrible corporate decisions get made.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6634

PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's mean, but I laughed.


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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6183
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that is bullshit

how often do they say up front that they're playing devil's advocate
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WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 12380
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the time when there's one panel left.
Besides, when they don't tell you they're playing the devil's advocate, they're not. And when they tell you they're playing the devil's advocate, they're not.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6634

PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently someone did a survey of the demographics of r/mensrights on Reddit?

Holy shit, though.
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

99% male, 99% white. No surprises there.
84% strong conservative (not surprising), but 94% irreligious.
68% support legalizing weed and only 5% support same-sex marriage.
Most of them think men are disadvantaged socially (96%) and legally (98%).

A lot of the stupid can probably be traced back to this finding, though; 94% are between the ages of 17 and 25, with the vast majority being under 20 (91%). They are le teenagers.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10953
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
99% male, 99% white. No surprises there.
84% strong conservative (not surprising), but 94% irreligious.
68% support legalizing weed and only 5% support same-sex marriage.
Most of them think men are disadvantaged socially (96%) and legally (98%).

A lot of the stupid can probably be traced back to this finding, though; 94% are between the ages of 17 and 25, with the vast majority being under 20 (91%). They are le teenagers.

Which means most of them will probably grow out of it. Or we're raising a generation of misogynists. Or the distribution just reflects the users of reddit, and doesn't tell us anything except what we already know (many young people are ignorant).
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

most people likely drop the movement mentality when they, essentially, grow up. the only people left behind to drive the movement are the neverneverland diehards.

same thing happens with Objectivism. most people grow out of it when they're no longer an angry college freshman from a comfortable white socioeconomic background who's pretty sure they got it all figured out. both movements seem to attract a lot of privileged white males to it in an adolescent period of their intellectual and philosophical development, because it feeds on persecution complexes some people get despite growing up in comfortable socioeconomic positions
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Moor



Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 318

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
99% male, 99% white. No surprises there.
84% strong conservative (not surprising), but 94% irreligious.
68% support legalizing weed and only 5% support same-sex marriage.
Most of them think men are disadvantaged socially (96%) and legally (98%).

A lot of the stupid can probably be traced back to this finding, though; 94% are between the ages of 17 and 25, with the vast majority being under 20 (91%). They are le teenagers.

Which means most of them will probably grow out of it. Or we're raising a generation of misogynists. Or the distribution just reflects the users of reddit, and doesn't tell us anything except what we already know (many young people are ignorant).


For comparison, here's a (two year old) demographic study.
http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/gzb2w/i_made_a_basic_reddit_demographic_survey_lets/c1re10k

Some of the relevant stuff:

Gender
Male: 84%
Female: 16%

Age
Under 18: 6%
18-25: 56%
25-35: 29%
35-45: 5%
45-65: 2%
65+: .5%

Sexuality
Straight: 92%
Gay: 3%
Bi: 5%

Politics
Communist: 1%
Socialist: 22%
Centrist Left: 54%
Centrist Right: 13%
Conservative Right:2%
Ultra Conservative: 1%
Fascist: 1%
Anarchist: 5%
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Ennis



Joined: 09 Jun 2013
Posts: 936
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That survey oh god. I can't believe how many men have their heads stuck so far up their arses that they believe men are much more socially and legally disadvantaged, and then their big thing they all support is marijuana legalisation over ACTUALLY IMPORTANT ISSUES.

That was a lie, I can believe it. Quite easily.
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Thy Brilliance



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3661
Location: Relative

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:
Apparently someone did a survey of the demographics of r/mensrights on Reddit?

Holy shit, though.


Why are they like that again?

A survey like this tells us what/who they are, but I was never clear on the why.

What's the cause of this behavior?

How are they forming their opinions in this manner?

That most of them are young is not the answer.

I personally would like to know location based data.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10953
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moor wrote:
Dogen wrote:
WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
99% male, 99% white. No surprises there.
84% strong conservative (not surprising), but 94% irreligious.
68% support legalizing weed and only 5% support same-sex marriage.
Most of them think men are disadvantaged socially (96%) and legally (98%).

A lot of the stupid can probably be traced back to this finding, though; 94% are between the ages of 17 and 25, with the vast majority being under 20 (91%). They are le teenagers.

Which means most of them will probably grow out of it. Or we're raising a generation of misogynists. Or the distribution just reflects the users of reddit, and doesn't tell us anything except what we already know (many young people are ignorant).


For comparison, here's a (two year old) demographic study.
http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/gzb2w/i_made_a_basic_reddit_demographic_survey_lets/c1re10k

Some of the relevant stuff:

Gender
Male: 84%
Female: 16%

Age
Under 18: 6%
18-25: 56%
25-35: 29%
35-45: 5%
45-65: 2%
65+: .5%

Sexuality
Straight: 92%
Gay: 3%
Bi: 5%

Politics
Communist: 1%
Socialist: 22%
Centrist Left: 54%
Centrist Right: 13%
Conservative Right:2%
Ultra Conservative: 1%
Fascist: 1%
Anarchist: 5%

Thanks! I went back and was looking at the MRAs to compare and noticed that 88% of them said they were 17-20, which is amazingly narrow. I'd noticed it before but hadn't really thought about just how unlikely that is for most groups where age isn't specifically a factor for joining.
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Moor



Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 318

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool -- they posted the raw data.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsASPwogRzA9dHJ1eWNHTjBXZGVUOUowckpnc093Mnc#gid=0


Wait, what? Okay, unless there was something wrong with the conversion to tab-separated-values, or with my download, whoever did the analysis totally assumed literally 5/6ths of their data. Look:

Code:

>>> datastr = open("r_mensrights_Survey_(Responses)_-_Form_Responses.tsv").read()
>>> data = [line.split('\t') for line in datastr.split('\n')]
>>> data2 = [line[:6] + [line[6].split(', ')] + line[7:] for line in data]
>>> data = data2
>>> pprint([line for line in data if line[2] == ''][:10])
[['4/9/2014 21:40:51', '', '', '', '', '', [''], '', ''],
 ['4/9/2014 21:42:50', '', '', '', '', '', [''], '', ''],
 ['4/9/2014 22:09:33', '', '', '', '', '', [''], '', ''],
 ['4/9/2014 22:35:47', '', '', '', '', '', [''], '', ''],
 ['4/10/2014 0:17:16', '', '', '', '', '', [''], '', ''],
 ['4/10/2014 0:19:16', '', '', '', '', '', [''], '', ''],
 ['4/10/2014 0:21:50', '', '', '', '', '', [''], '', ''],
 ['4/10/2014 1:00:35', '', '', '', '', '', [''], '', ''],
 ['4/10/2014 1:09:17', '', '', '', '', '', [''], '', ''],
 ['4/10/2014 1:13:14', '', '', '', '', '', [''], '', '']]
>>> len([line for line in data if line[1:] == ['', '', '', '', '', [''], '', '']])
2564
>>> len(data)
3068
>>>


To interpret -- look at the last four lines of that.
There are 3068 pieces of data.
There are 2564 pieces of data with literally nothing filled out.

And if you look back at the graphs, you'll notice that all of the majority ones are up by more than 2564. They just took null answers and made them those by default, instead of throwing them out.

I'll get the actual numbers at some point, but not right now.
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 2903
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ennis wrote:
That survey oh god. I can't believe how many men have their heads stuck so far up their arses that they believe men are much more socially and legally disadvantaged, and then their big thing they all support is marijuana legalisation over ACTUALLY IMPORTANT ISSUES.

That was a lie, I can believe it. Quite easily.


I laughed so hard at the fact that so many favor marijuana issues over equal rights. It just proves that the sub is a big fucking sham where emo teenagers and divorced dads come together over how women ruin their lives and apparantly drugs are so awesome. I don't fear them because the people who are for legalizing drugs value equal rights way more and the people who don't value equal rights will never legalize drugs.

And like Dogen said, there's a good chance they'll grow out of it. I know I was ignorant++ and thankfully I woke up from that stupidity a few years later.
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