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May 10: Cliffhanger!
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Homeslice



Joined: 17 Jun 2012
Posts: 241
Location: NC

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Onimaru wrote:
New one is up, but I don't know how to create a new thread, so I'll just say it here..... FUCK!

Just use the new topic button
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DiCola



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 58
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That fancomic by Miss Magenta was very lovely to read Smile Alternative plots FTW!
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OklahomanSun



Joined: 16 Mar 2014
Posts: 383

PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Felgraf wrote:
OklahomanSun wrote:
Why are people placing Xanthe into a position where she has any sort of empathy for Slick or any guys.

Just because she's slightly more articulate than the rest of the gang doesn't mean that she'd be very bothered to see a guy get shot.



What the fuck.

"I am pissed about men treating women poorly"="I'M OKAY WITH DUDES GETTINGMURDERED", apparently!

Is this the way you view things too, then? Would *You* be OK seeing someone get murdered/not interfering, if you somewhat disliked that person?


There's plenty of content with Xanthe and the gang that can support a belief that men are essentially what's wrong with the world, and even more, that men create and perpetuate a system that actively suppresses women. I've not seen anything to demonstrate that Xanthe would care much at all what happens to men.

Would she consider it murder? Perhaps not. She might consider it part of an ongoing conflict, or the result of a traumatic incident ( PX's being bought and sold as property). There is a lot of support for this in real life, juries have nullified manslaughter charges against rape victims in the US, for example.

You're taking it a bit far, however. I was referring to the fan comics that were showing her actively saving Slick, and then making long winded speeches about how "men aren't all bad" and how "slick can learn to be better because of this."

Those things are the fantasy whims of the posters who want Xanthe to demonstrate behaviour she has never indicated.

When I said that she wouldn't do this and probably wouldn't care, what I meant is not that she would support murder. What I meant is that when she heard (Since she's not in the scene ) that Slick had been shot by a fembot that he had purchased with obvious intentions, she would probably have said "meh."

You took it to a level that you wanted to take it, putting words in my mouth so that you could blast the fictional position you put me into.


EDIT/POSTSCRIPT

You can really see where you're bending the truth to make your point when you attempt to place me into their position. When you ask if I would be ok with someone getting murdered if I "somewhat disliked them"

Do you really think that the level of opinion that Xanthe and the gang have for men is "somewhat dislike"?

Do you really?

Is that being honest with yourself? I don't think so. I think you and I and in fact everyone knows that their opinion of men and the patriarchy is just a wee bit stronger than that.

I somewhat dislike blueberry jam, I prefer raspberry. I somewhat dislike green curry. I somewhat dislike cricket. I somewhat dislike a lot of things, but when it comes to something that I design most of my life around, like the girls do, I think you'd have to assume that those things fall into categories stronger than "somewhat dislike."
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Miss Magenta



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 2129
Location: im probably asleep right now

PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugggggggggggggggggggggggggh

im in no mood to debate rn buuuuuuuut she haaaaaaaaaaaaaaas deonstrated such behavior

like i dunno the fact that she has actively expressed before that she has a personal interest in seeing slick become a better person, giving criminy a set of informative books on feminism, fantasizing about storytime zombie and li'l e joining her in her quest for revolution, straight-up telling lil e that he should fight the patriarchy, the fact she straight-up said to nique that the patriarchy's frigid gender roles lead to discontent and alienation to both women AND MEN

not to mention that the sisterhood has straight-up gone out of their way to prevent harm towards males. li'l sis had several chances to attack squig, who from her perspective would have deserved it, but chose not to... clio saved squig once, tried talking to him about his insecurities and troubles with addiction, spared the life of a man legitimately trying to KILL HER WITH AN AXE, hacking the patriarchy system so it says encouraging messages such as "guys, its okay to cry"... the medic tending to the wounds of an identifiably MALE dragon...

while none of them are going to put up with bs from men, they're certainly not going to loiter around and watch a dude get murdered. they're straight-up going to intervene. they are champions of justice, and regardless of how grey their morals may be, they certainly value the lives of men.

and xanthe CANONICALLY CARES ABOUT SLICK TO AN EXTENT. and while its certainly implausible that she would conveniently be around to save slick, it was just a silly idea i liked the sound of, its clear as day that she WOULD save him if she WERE around (which she very obviously was not) because SHE CARES ABOUT HIM (TO AN EXTENT, OF COURSE), AND THE SISTERHOOD VALUE ALL LIFE. LMAO
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OklahomanSun



Joined: 16 Mar 2014
Posts: 383

PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miss Magenta wrote:
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugggggggggggggggggggggggggh

im in no mood to debate rn buuuuuuuut she haaaaaaaaaaaaaaas deonstrated such behavior

like i dunno the fact that she has actively expressed before that she has a personal interest in seeing slick become a better person, giving criminy a set of informative books on feminism, fantasizing about storytime zombie and li'l e joining her in her quest for revolution, straight-up telling lil e that he should fight the patriarchy, the fact she straight-up said to nique that the patriarchy's frigid gender roles lead to discontent and alienation to both women AND MEN

not to mention that the sisterhood has straight-up gone out of their way to prevent harm towards males. li'l sis had several chances to attack squig, who from her perspective would have deserved it, but chose not to... clio saved squig once, tried talking to him about his insecurities and troubles with addiction, spared the life of a man legitimately trying to KILL HER WITH AN AXE, hacking the patriarchy system so it says encouraging messages such as "guys, its okay to cry"... the medic tending to the wounds of an identifiably MALE dragon...

while none of them are going to put up with bs from men, they're certainly not going to loiter around and watch a dude get murdered. they're straight-up going to intervene. they are champions of justice, and regardless of how grey their morals may be, they certainly value the lives of men.

and xanthe CANONICALLY CARES ABOUT SLICK TO AN EXTENT. and while its certainly implausible that she would conveniently be around to save slick, it was just a silly idea i liked the sound of, its clear as day that she WOULD save him if she WERE around (which she very obviously was not) because SHE CARES ABOUT HIM (TO AN EXTENT, OF COURSE), AND THE SISTERHOOD VALUE ALL LIFE. LMAO


Some of what you have said is true.

I would only say two things to that.


1: That actively stepping in when you're physically in a situation, or refraining from attacking someone personally is one thing. Finding out that someone had bought a sex slave who turned around and shot him, and that person was a member of a gender with which you had intense frustration is another. I can easily see a "meh" coming out of that.

2: Xanthe's feelings/position with regards to Slick are one thing. Your position on them is another, and it's clearly influenced not totally on the reality of the situation, but on your own bias and hopes for the characters. There's a clear wish for some sort of closer relationship in your fan comics. I just don't think that's supported by anything other than your wishes. In my mind, it's just not there.
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Miss Magenta



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 2129
Location: im probably asleep right now

PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lmao what do you think i like their relationship for no reason? because like

dog. im a character analyst. character interaction and personal relationships are like, important to a character as a person and regards to characterization and development. wtf u think i have to analyze if im gonna be a character analyst? fuckin, SHOES? their relationship is one that is canonically riddled with conflict, lots of it. but their interactions are hilarious most of the time, and their dynamics are symbolic of plenty of things. and i do, admittedly, wish for a closer relationship. because, well, damn it, the idea is HILARIOUS and requires a LOT of effort and development on both ends to ever be POSSIBLE in the context of a romantic relationship. and as far as canon is concerned, they did sort of have a short-lived (albeit shaky and weak) friendship before sleaze basically Fucked That up

but as an analyst u gotta set ur bias aside and look at canon and canon is literally like "slick wants to be her friend - and xanthe cares about him to some extent, but not really sure if its on a personal level or not"

which brings me to public enemy, which is basically "xanthe cared a lot about whether slick gives a shit about her and feels betrayed by the fact he apparently did nothing to help her (even if it was sleaze)" - which is after slick straight up said to her that he is her ally and her comrade in justice, which she held absolutely no objection to - and like, despite feeling betrayed by his lack of action, and moping about it for like two strips (before tat completely forgot about it) still did her best to give him helpful advice and doesnt really hold it against him. like, the only time she really gets annoyed w/ slick is when hes like I DID SOMETHING THAT I SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOING IN THE FIRST PLACE ARE YOU IMPRESSED DO YA THINK IM COOL, which, duh, annoying, but even then shes pretty polite towards him

does it necessarily mean she cares about him? not really, but considering the fact we know how she behaves regarding people she actually actively dislikes (d-man, milton) its pretty easy to infer that she has no hard feelings against him (which, contrary to common belief, i am actually disappointed about, i was hopin the Public Enemy deal would go on for a little longer, i wanted to get some real good conflict and character development outta that, but then again, its sinfest, wtf am i expecting)

its not like xanthe wouldnt know about the thing w/ the fembot either, like, im pretty sure she knows. clio is her best friend, and clio was the one to call slick out on his faked forced relationship w/ rogue. and xanthe and clio HAVE spoken to each other since the fembot incident, and xanthe HAS spoken to slick after the fembot incident. in fact, slick declaring himself her ally happened + public enemy LONG after the fembot incident. theres no logical reason to assume she wouldnt know. its not like the sisterhood keeps secrets among one another. everyone in the sisterhood is best friends and practically family, and again, if xanthe has gone out of her way to get a secret agent to analyze slicks behavior then im sure that the rest of the sisters would be aware "oh, she cares about this particular dudes misbehavior, maybe we should tell her whenever he fucks up"

also i just checked, xanthe has also gone out of her way to save countless lives (which includes men) and straight up prevents lil sis from beating up slick (not necessarily out of affection, of course) the fact remains the sisterhood values human life, regardless of gender, sex, and regardless of whether or not theyre a bad person or not. and xanthe herself is a champion of justice who wants to live in a world where both men and women are on equal footing, where gender roles are eliminated and no one has to be what theyre told they should be. Thats Her Thing, dude.

so like. even if she DOESNT care about slick, that doesnt mean she wouldnt save him if given the opportunity? cuz she would. she literally would. maybe she wouldnt mind too much if she heard about him getting shot, maybe she would mind a lot, that sort of depends on a lot of things, a lot of hypothetical things that tat would likely never care enough to explore. but i lean towards "she would probably care because she's a champion of justice that values life, because she personally wanted to see him become a better person, which he cant do if hes DEAD, and because the sisterhood canonically does not support the murder of men under any circumstances" ("except maybe lil sis but we're not really sure what her deal is for A LOT of reasons inside and outside of canon")

ill repeat what i said earlier and that is

Miss Magenta wrote:
cause she DOES canonically care about slick to some degree? we're not sure how far that degree goes but she has canonically shown that she is personally interested in seeing slick becoming a better person, and she WAS warming up to him as a potential friend at one point.


like, she isnt necessarily in love with him, and she doesnt necessarily consider him a friend, especially not after the public enemy fiasco, but she sure as hell does give a lot of hecks about his choices, behavior, and General Existence,
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