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Sexual Orientation, Gender Identity, and the rest
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fritterdonut



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
Posts: 1188
Location: Hedonism

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
Jabberjay wrote:
Name one hate group whose motivations don't come from a ridiculously overblown sense of insecurity.



Me.


The SPLC would have to dedicate an entire filing cabinet
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Ennis



Joined: 09 Jun 2013
Posts: 816
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andreja Pejic comes out as a trans woman

While I'm a little sad that she isn't nonbinary transfeminine, it's still pretty great to have someone so well-known and respected come out as transgender. I've always thought she was the most beautiful person alive, regardless of gender.
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Jabberjay



Joined: 31 Jul 2012
Posts: 259

PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there any good speculative fiction out there that features a world where there are no gender expectations associated with either biological sex or sexual preference? I can think of a lot of "equal rights" progressive futures but I can't think of any that either break down or re-interpret the idea of a gender binary.

Like how Invisible Man manages to go the entire length of the novel without once naming the protagonist, a story such as that should run its entire length without once giving away the biological sex of the protagonist.
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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. Any proper xenofiction ever.
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Jabberjay



Joined: 31 Jul 2012
Posts: 259

PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heretical Rants wrote:
Yes. Any proper xenofiction ever.


TV Tropes is making my search for good xenofiction examples difficult. It counted Watership Down and other stories with animals as the leads, which seems to make up the bulk of the literature section. Most animal-fiction still has gender expectations, just not necessarily the exact same as with most human cultures.

I was thinking more of "in a distant future, where humans no longer associate how they should behave with the genetics and genitals that they are born with." I don't think the ideas of masculine and feminine would ever disappear completely but what if there was no stigma attached with being either, so long as you could keep up with the demands?

Although some wierd xenofiction with tentacle-people with nine sexes and twelve genders would probably make some fun reading too. Gotta find me of 'o that.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 10559
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about a futuristic story where humans can switch gender to their preference: http://www.netflix.com/WiMovie/70301578 Wink *runs from HR*
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WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 12249
Location: Unknown Kaddath

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/07/28/336119802/another-appeals-court-tosses-same-sex-marriage-ban

What's the count now, 29 consecutive rulings against state bans?
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Jabberjay



Joined: 31 Jul 2012
Posts: 259

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The issue of state bans isn't to actually make same-sex marriage illegal, it's to get paleo-conservatives to come out and vote for republican candidates. if anything the bans being shot down in appeals court is a win for the Republicans because it means they can continue to try and force the issue for votes.

They are wasting everyone's time and money so they can hold onto the power to waste everyone's time and money.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3429
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So yesterday an uproar started where someone (or some people) got upset that some transgender otherkin use the same language to describe their being otherkin that trans people use to describe being trans. Apparently anyone who disapproves of this are terrible, terrible bigots.

Also, science is bad.
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tumblr feminists are literally the worst thing ever for any real movement for justice.

Also self diagnosing yourself with autism/bipolar/multiple personality disorder is trashy and classless

And otherkin are either liars or severely delusional and in need of years of therapy.
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Jabberjay



Joined: 31 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something makes me think you'd just love the shit out this webcomic: http://www.dreamingofutopia.com/
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3316

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really don't care one way or another about furries as long as they aren't spreading their porn all over inappropriate venues for it.

Whatever kink gets you off is none of my business.

I find adopting a persecution complex comparing the ridicule they get to the savage beatings and lynchings of black people, and the genocide of the jews pretty distasteful and kind of wish they'd get the fuck off their cross though.
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Jabberjay



Joined: 31 Jul 2012
Posts: 259

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a furry myself, and that comic is actually interesting if you read it from the perspective that the IRL furry fandom never existed, which I think is part of the author's intent. Also if it seems uncomfortably weird I think that was also a part of the author's intent. Apparently all "baaawwww, muh fursecution" vibes are wholly unintentional and the author himself says that internet bullying and highschool teasing aren't comparable to legitimate discrimination.

I just thought you'd find it interesting because it's essentially about an otherkin cult whose beliefs are completely nuts, but who are otherwise harmless. It does go a bit overboard on the persecution-gore though.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 17275
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jabberjay wrote:
Is there any good speculative fiction out there that features a world where there are no gender expectations associated with either biological sex or sexual preference? I can think of a lot of "equal rights" progressive futures but I can't think of any that either break down or re-interpret the idea of a gender binary.

Like how Invisible Man manages to go the entire length of the novel without once naming the protagonist, a story such as that should run its entire length without once giving away the biological sex of the protagonist.


well, it's old, but are you familiar with ursula k. leguin's left hand of darkness? it's about a planet where the native population are genderless except when they come into "heat" (as it were); at that time they can become either male or female. what they become depends to some extent on who they are with but can be moderated by many things, so married people may switch over (so each spouse can both sire and bear children), while some people seem to always become on sex or the other. it's been a while since i read it, but it does prompt some thought about what gender means if there is no concept of having a constant, stable gender. not quite what you are thinking of, i guess, except that in this context, one can't really associate a character with a gender, since the gender can change. so knowing what they are in one month does not tell you what they will be next month.

she does tend to use the male pronoun except when a person is expressly female, but the book was inspired by a short story she wrote called "winter's king" - which she later republished in "the wind's twelve quarters", but switching out all the male pronouns to female pronouns. it's interesting to compare the two versions - i was surprised at how much changing gender impacted my view of the characters. shows off my biases, i guess - however much i try not to have them.

oh, wait - here's that version (with explanatory intro) (i had to copy into word, no line breaks)
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Ennis



Joined: 09 Jun 2013
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Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
So yesterday an uproar started where someone (or some people) got upset that some transgender otherkin use the same language to describe their being otherkin that trans people use to describe being trans. Apparently anyone who disapproves of this are terrible, terrible bigots.

Also, science is bad.

*long sigh*

Today I had the most awkward trans moment. I'm doing this special masterclass and for the first two days we've had this drama teacher kind of woman. Anyway, I was doing a short skit up in front of the class and after utterly failing to answer her questions about my "character", she ends up referring to me as "her" and I'm just like "Umm I'm not a her" so she's like "Oh, so your character is a he?" and we just ended up having this really embarrassing back and forth where I was like no, not the character, ME PERSONALLY. I told her I was trans, she was still confused, I got really frustrated and was just like "you know, the T in the LGBT!" I'm not even sure it got sorted out in the end. Keep in mind, this was in front of the WHOLE class, which since it wasn't a usual thing included people I didn't know. It was just embarrassing in general. It's kind of funny because last year we had this same woman for a day and I also had trans issues with the class. I wasn't out yet and we had to do these activities with saying our name which I really, really didn't want to use my birth name for. I ended up using my surname, but before that at some point she asked my name in front of the class and I just sort of froze up for a few seconds and she was like "What, have you forgotten your own name?" and everyone laughed. I thought that this year since I'm out the class couldn't possibly go that badly again but whoops, looks like I found a way.

I found it kind of insulting that after all that the trans girl I had tried to be friendly to didn't even say anything to me. I expected a tiny bit of solidarity, but nothing. I'm not sure if her being trans is as obvious to others as it is to me, but as far as I can tell no one's misgendered her or said anything mean. Or anything at all, really. I tried to start up a conversation with her before all this happened but she was really quiet and didn't exactly hold up her side of the conversation. You know when you ask people questions but they break the flow and don't ask anything back and so there's just awkward silence? That's what it was like.

Anyway. That was today's awkward trans scenarios. Tune in next week for another episode of "I wish I didn't have to deal with this".
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