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send in the clowns (2016 edition)
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Who will be the 2016 Republican Presidential Candidate?
Jeb! Bush
44%
 44%  [ 12 ]
"The Donald" Trump
29%
 29%  [ 8 ]
Ted "The Debate-Master" Cruz
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Rand (not Ron) Paul
3%
 3%  [ 1 ]
Marco "The Future" Rubio
7%
 7%  [ 2 ]
Ben "the Brain-surgeon" Carson
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Carly "HP" Fiorina
7%
 7%  [ 2 ]
Mike "The Reverend Mister" Huckabee
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Rick "Don't Google Me" Santorum
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
A Candidate to be named later
7%
 7%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 27

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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 21331
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you know, the thing about all this deal-making the donald says he is going to do....the thing about deals is, both sides kinda gotta want to make one.

that is one reason a brokered convention would be so instructive. how does donald deal with someone who just says 'no', and walks away?

i mean, obama was ready to make deals with congress, but the republicans refused to consider negotiating. and all these grand plans the donald has - they gotta go through congress. (i _love_ all the people who talk about obama acting like some despot, but they apparently haven't asked themselves about how donald is going to do it).

we will see. it is certainly in the party's power to make a last-ditch rule change, but who do they have now to put in his place?

but yeah...kinda sad to miss the spectacle of a convention fight.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But we do get to witness the spectacle of all the GOP people who have been going on about how they hate Trump suddenly discovering new reasons to love him. Or perhaps a great mass exodus from the party.

It's poetic that they seem to be all out of options. No one else can come and save them from the monster they've built. I would hope it eats them, but then the ensuing chaos would probably be very bad.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nono, it's all going to be ok. donald says so
Quote:
I’m not running for president to make things unstable for the country.”
Quote:
On Inauguration Day, he would go to a “beautiful” gala ball or two, but focus mostly on rescinding Obama executive orders on immigration and calling up corporate executives to threaten punitive measures if they shift jobs out of the United States.

And by the end of his first 100 days as the nation’s 45th leader, the wall with Mexico would be designed, the immigration ban on Muslims would be in place, the audit of the Federal Reserve would be underway and plans to repeal the Affordable Care Act would be in motion.

Quote:
He talked of turning the Oval Office into a high-powered board room, empowering military leaders over foreign affairs specialists in national security debates, and continuing to speak harshly about adversaries.
Quote:
“As president, I’ll be working from the first day with my vice president and staff to make clear that America will be changing in major ways for the better,” Mr. Trump said in a telephone interview on Saturday. “We can’t afford to waste time. I want a vice president who will help me have a major impact quickly on Capitol Hill, and the message will be clear to the nation and to people abroad that the American government will be using its power differently.”


so? nothing destabilizing in any of that!
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ShadowCell



Joined: 02 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"i'm not running to make things unstable for the country, i'm just going to weaken civilian control over the military! when has that ever bit anyone in the ass?"

hope you're proud of yourselves, republicans
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 11376

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
But we do get to witness the spectacle of all the GOP people who have been going on about how they hate Trump suddenly discovering new reasons to love him. Or perhaps a great mass exodus from the party.

It's poetic that they seem to be all out of options. No one else can come and save them from the monster they've built. I would hope it eats them, but then the ensuing chaos would probably be very bad.


my Republican Death Spiral theory (© Sam, 2009) holds that it is more than just that it is eating them, but that the whole sordid mess is a direct symptom of that the party is demographically imploding. Trump, Cruz, the Liberty Caucus, the Tea Party, and all other associated things appear to be how the party is manifesting its End Stage Decline. They have appeared because the party is eating itself, and the whole mess is accelerating their decline through dysfunction.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
"i'm not running to make things unstable for the country, i'm just going to weaken civilian control over the military! when has that ever bit anyone in the ass?"

hope you're proud of yourselves, republicans


i really do wonder a) how much he thinks we are currently spending on the military and 2) how much he thinks we should increase that. he keeps talking about how terrible our military is, and how he's going to build it back up - if it isn't 'built up' when we are spending more than the next however-many countries combined, how is throwing yet more money at them going to help? what, exactly, does he think is wrong with our military - other than they haven't managed to crush ISIS? (and i'm guessing his knowledge of what it takes to fight terrorists is about on par with his knowledge of our nuclear capabilities).
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Taemon



Joined: 08 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
my Republican Death Spiral theory (© Sam, 2009) holds that it is more than just that it is eating them, but that the whole sordid mess is a direct symptom of that the party is demographically imploding. Trump, Cruz, the Liberty Caucus, the Tea Party, and all other associated things appear to be how the party is manifesting its End Stage Decline. They have appeared because the party is eating itself, and the whole mess is accelerating their decline through dysfunction.

How did all of this start? And why?
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ShadowCell



Joined: 02 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
ShadowCell wrote:
"i'm not running to make things unstable for the country, i'm just going to weaken civilian control over the military! when has that ever bit anyone in the ass?"

hope you're proud of yourselves, republicans


i really do wonder a) how much he thinks we are currently spending on the military and 2) how much he thinks we should increase that. he keeps talking about how terrible our military is, and how he's going to build it back up - if it isn't 'built up' when we are spending more than the next however-many countries combined, how is throwing yet more money at them going to help? what, exactly, does he think is wrong with our military - other than they haven't managed to crush ISIS? (and i'm guessing his knowledge of what it takes to fight terrorists is about on par with his knowledge of our nuclear capabilities).


"throwing more money at the military" generally means putting more money into bloated expensive weapons systems of impressive appearance and questionable utility. like, we don't really need a fleet of 32 of these things, especially not at $4 billion a pop, but it's exactly the sort of thing that would appeal to Trump's low-watt testosterone-soaked mentality. we get a whole shitload of kickass stealth destroyers! we're not sure what to do with them, but we have them! america, fuck yeah!
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's also the problem of aircraft carriers, which aren't very necessary but keep getting built because it's good for the local economies of cities that host them.

We could easily shift some of that money to more necessary stuff, like body armor & medical care for military folks. But the only thing we do to help them is platitudes.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

actually, i think i have heard trump say he will discontinue weapons systems the military doesn't want.

unfortunately, he doesn't seem to have worked out that the reason congress funds such systems is that _congress_ wants them. and they want them because they make sure that at least part of such weapons systems are built in their state, so they can claim they are bringing jobs to the state. (i'm sure the "donations" they get from the companies involved have _nothing_ to do with it).

duncan hunter v1.0 spent _years_ promoting the DP-2:
Quote:
The DP-2 is a Vertical Take-Off and Landing, or VTOL, aircraft designed by DuPont Aerospace to transport special operations forces, but has been repeatedly rejected by the United States Navy, United States Army, United States Air Force, NASA, and DARPA. The design, of which all four constructed models have crashed, has had $63 million appropriated to it since 1991, not including a suggested $6 million for fiscal year 2008. Despite the rejections and reports by multiple military and civilian experts that the aircraft will not fly or hover and will incinerate Special Operations forces rappelling out of the aircraft, Hunter has allegedly repeatedly added funding for the DP-2 in "earmarks" and defended the aircraft in recent testimony to the Subcommittee on Investigations and Oversight of the Committee on Science and Technology. Hunter received $36,000 in donations from DuPont Aerospace.
(i'm hoping it was the bolded bit that finally got it cancelled).

donald not only seems to have no idea of what congress actually does or how it works, but what motivates them to do what they do.....so not sure how he thinks he's going to get them to give up on those flashy new toys. especially since it doesn't seem to have sunk in on him that, while _he_ doesn't need anyone's money, _they_ live for it (not sure why, since he's boasted about buying so many politicians).

and if he thinks they are just going to hand over the power of the purse to him.....
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