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Open letter to Tatsuya Ishida
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dcole87



Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KALXAK wrote:
Chronometry wrote:
KALXAK wrote:
I'm so done with all of you.


To quote a certain It Girl:



HAH! Like *I* was the one not enjoying the comic and coming to the forums just to talk shit about it. Please, buy a mirror.


I believe the understanding was that you were done with the forum, which you apparently aren't. Which is fine, you're a person with free will and rights and stuff, but you're coming off as kind of a dick.
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Vixine



Joined: 12 Jan 2016
Posts: 356

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be fair, them coming off as a dick is not in any way limited to just them coming back after supposedly flouncing off in a huff again.
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The Victim Here



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 2932
Location: Wed May 05, 2004 8:27 am

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It'll turn out that KAL was just some weird avant-garde art show piece about social interactions without simple removal or silencing tools, a calling out of the rose tinted glasses had over past free expression. And, like most self-conscious avant-garde nonsense it'll turn out to be funded by the CIA in an attempt to overthrow the democracy of a small South American country.

How very gauche.
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Yorick



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 12292
Location: Laganglia

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taemon wrote:
KALXAK wrote:
Chronometry wrote:
KALXAK wrote:
I'm so done with all of you.


To quote a certain It Girl:



HAH! Like *I* was the one not enjoying the comic and coming to the forums just to talk shit about it. Please, buy a mirror.

... you're still here.


there is a type of person who is only interested in the reaction to what they say, not to actually follow thru on what they say.

Kakakalalxative seems to be one of those.

or if you prefer, "I'll say I'm running away but really hide under the bed, that'll show them! they'll miss me when I'm gone!" but when the family suddenly moves out and has a party ...
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Strix Varia



Joined: 07 Feb 2016
Posts: 227
Location: State of confusion

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



It looks like Tat has finally decided to respond to this open letter. After long consideration and deep reflection, he has come to the conclusion that ... your dumb. Nyaa.
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Being a bit pervy isn't always a bad thing. Chiverally isn't always sexist. Being a little devious isn't always evil. Mankind includes all genders. Be safe, put a safety on that trigger.
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HKVeteran



Joined: 05 Mar 2017
Posts: 95
Location: New Mexico

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strix Varia wrote:


It looks like Tat has finally decided to respond to this open letter. After long consideration and deep reflection, he has come to the conclusion that ... your dumb. Nyaa.


Just going to Repeat what I said earlier.

HKVeteran wrote:
I have seen many criticisms of his viewpoints and/or his writing style being portrayed as infected zombies, monosyllabic undead ghouls, and other miscellaneous fools (with varying degrees of self-importance). Stunts like that are not counter-arguments. They aren't wit. They are the comics version of blowing a raspberry at criticisms.

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It's easy to see without looking to far that not much is really sacred - Bob Dylan "It's Alright Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)"
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Taemon



Joined: 08 Aug 2013
Posts: 2154
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

/me surfaces
This, still? Oh, even worse? I am being called what now by Tat? Okay then.
/me dives again
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Zilla



Joined: 08 Jun 2016
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, he's got a strawman version of the argument. He's missing the key points about how stuff like the Nordic model makes it worse for the people who have no choice, and mischaracterizing it as people who want to benefit from the system trying to defend their own actions.

We may need to be clearer, and we may need to make sure we focus on the harms SWERF rhetoric has on actual women, because he's focusing on the idea that sex work is inherently irredeemable, and anyone who engages with the system willingly is evil or fictional.

And to be clear, there's a lot of evil in the sex industry. Hell, there's a lot of evil in industry, just that most of it doesn't touch the inherent sexism as deeply.

I found what basically amounts to a primer on the situation we have here. We need to do the work to bridge the gaps between us to find a solution that primarily benefits the people.who are currently being exploited, and prevents as much desolation and destitution as possible.
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ChastMastr



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 486
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida, US

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strix Varia wrote:

It looks like Tat has finally decided to respond to this open letter. After long consideration and deep reflection, he has come to the conclusion that ... your dumb. Nyaa.


I hope that's not the case. Maybe he hasn't even read the posts on this thread. I think better of him than that.

I miss the other characters who have more connection to spiritual stuff, like the Sinfest versions of God, Buddha, etc., whom I don't think we've seen much of in a while. That was actually what got me into Sinfest in the first place.

I also miss fun stuff. Just fun, silly stuff.

As for the issues surrounding porn (and prostitution), I've said my piece earlier in this thread, and nothing's changed on that.

I feel like this particular storyline has been kind of saying the same thing over and over and over now without any new developments or new arguments. Even if one grants his apparent position--that *ALL* porn and *ALL* prostitution is intrinsically evil, and apparently is *ALL* about men exploiting women (again, gay/bi/pan/queer/etc. males don't seem to exist in the Sinfestverse, except for that one guy and his boyfriend, and (I'm pretty confident) Seymour)--even if one grants that, there's so much stuff in the category of "toxic messages we get in the media" that I thought we'd be getting in this storyline (class, race, capitalism, homo/trans-phobia, etc.) that seems largely untouched.
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ChastMastr



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 486
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida, US

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zilla wrote:
Hell, there's a lot of evil in industry, just that most of it doesn't touch the inherent sexism as deeply.


Amen.
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Vancore



Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Posts: 135

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its not like Tat's going to create a character about a Prostitute that runs their own business outside the devil's influence and then objectify it as a good thing.

That's a little too sinful for sinfest.
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Taemon



Joined: 08 Aug 2013
Posts: 2154
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How's that sinful? How can you "objectify" something in a good thing, I don't understand that sentence.
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KALXAK



Joined: 25 Nov 2017
Posts: 172
Location: Rogue

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyways, here goes a song you might like, Tat (since this is an open letter and all):

Video

Lyrics:
Power in the darkness
Frightening lies from the other side
Power in the darkness
Stand up and fight for your rights

Freedom, we're talking bout your freedom
Freedom to choose what you do with your body
Freedom to believe what you like
Freedom for brothers to love one another
Freedom for black and white
Freedom from elitism, male domination
Freedom for the mother and wife
Freedom from Big Brother's interrogation
Freedom to live your own life

Power in the darkness
Frightening lies from the other side
Power in the darkness
Stand up and fight for your rights

"Today, institutions fundamental to the British system of Government are under attack
the public schools, the house of Lords, the Church of England, the holy institution of Marriage, even our magnificent police force are no longer safe from those who would undermine our society, and it's about time we said 'enough is enough' and saw a return to the traditional British values of discipline, obedience, morality and freedom.
Freedom from the reds and the blacks and the criminals
Prostitutes, pansies and punks
Football hooligans, juvenile delinquents
Lesbians and left wing scum
Freedom from the niggers and the Pakis and the unions
Freedom from the Gipsies and the Jews
Freedom from the long-haired layabouts and the students
Freedom from the likes of you"

Power in the darkness
Frightening lies from the other side
Power in the darkness
Stand up and fight for your rights
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I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the forum since then too... can't say that went well. But 3rd time is a charm.
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Leohan



Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 1853

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



...There it is. Read radical feminism, in big bold letters. Guess other forms of feminism turn you into an entitled zombie, then?

I knew that changing his mind might have been too much to ask, but if there was a single thing that I hoped Tat could have gotten out of this thread, it was the idea that the opposition wasn't evil. That we are reasonable people that want sex workers to exercise their freedom safely.

I'm not exactly mad... I just hoped he could have read more closely.
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Now featuring around 40 pages about non-sentient toasters
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ChastMastr



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 486
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida, US

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*checks back in on the strip after almost two weeks*

*"porn is bad" and "all sex work is exploitive" storyline is still running*

*nothing new is being said at all*

*no nuance is shown, nor is any opposing side actually engaged with, even to argue against it or show why it's wrong*

*never mind that there are women who like porn (of all kinds, whether same-sex of whatever gender, or mixed-gender), ditto men (including gay porn which doesn't involve women at all)*

*but I already said that*

Tat, look, I don't know if you're working out your own personal demons here. I know that in early strips there was this whole array of jokes about pimps and things. (There was also some cool stuff which has been missing for a while now. Sad ) The whole "dress as 1970s-era pimp character for Halloween" thing and jokes about prostitution" thing is a cultural thing I've simply never related to. I just assumed that it was humor, but I'm guessing that maybe stuff in your own life (internally, at least?) went deeper, and this may be part of your own working out of what some of us religious folk call "repentance." I also know that, for a lot of people, when one recognizes a fault in oneself and works to get rid of it, it can become a kind of crusade (in the negative sense), or even an obsession, and that one can see slippery slopes everywhere, and give the "enemy" no quarter, not even to engage with it to debate or argue, no room for nuance. I don't *know* that this is what is going on here, but some of the autobiographical bits (where the Artist is talking about having been misguided) seem to suggest it.

Speaking for myself, I'm a Christian. Specifically, I'm a convert to Christianity. When I first became a Christian (in my late teens in the early-mid 1980s) and everything was all shiny and new to me, I sometimes came across rather ... aggressively, especially in my first few years in college. I genuinely thought of these concepts as things that other people had never heard before, and I drove some people up the wall with it. Can I suggest, and please hear me out, that you might be doing this with some of the (very good and wise) things you've been recognizing in feminism, and that there is more than one approach to some aspects of it? And as well, that those other approaches are held by people sincerely, and not as some sort of manipulative ploy? Because when different ideas about these things show up, they're only in the mouths of "straw men" being used to get what they want. This... is very much like some of the more simplistic religious literature out there. People can't just be mistaken--they have to be evil. Indeed, I once had a friend who pretty much went around the bend to the extreme right wing, literally saying that if one held certain beliefs (for instance, that abortion wasn't intrinsically murder, but there were others, solely on the "liberal" side of things), then one had to be, and I quote, "stupid, insane, or evil." (His approach to things actually was a cautionary tale for me--while we ostensibly shared many beliefs, it was like watching someone succumb to the Dark Side of the Force from Star Wars. I decided that this isn't what Jesus would want me to do, and I resolved to not go down that path.) He simply wouldn't allow for the idea that someone could be sincere, intelligent, and a basically decent person, and just honestly mistaken. (And of course there are people in this world who are acting or arguing in bad faith, and who really are doing it manipulatively for their own ends, but that's not everyone.)

I'm not sure what else to add here. Thank you for listening.

David
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