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Strip 7/17: Does the church want you stupid? Absolutely!
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Zeku



Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 117

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regardless of whatever problems religious bodies might suffer from, the original Bible story doesn't imply that we should be simple or ignorant.

I believe that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, whatever it may have actually been, represents at its core the means by which information is gathered.

If we momentarily assume that the God of the old testament is in fact the creator of reality itself, then in that case 'good' would represent knowledge gained through obedience, and 'evil' would represent knowledge gained through disobedience. The logical extension of 'evil' in that case would be what we now call mental evolution. That is to say, the process of elimination. (The 'good' equivalent being divine inspiration.) I've always found it interesting that the process of elimination can only reveal information that already exists. It cannot create new information.

You'll remember at a later point that the serpent tells Eve that if she eats of the fruit, she will become as a god. I think it's worth noting that those are not the words of God, but the words of an enemy.
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Halen



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 1883
Location: England

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And you'll remember that the bible is a book written by people thousands of years after these supposed events happened, who were essentially just making it up.

OH SHIT I SWORE OFF THESE THREADS OK I REALLY AM SWEARING OFF THEM NOW HONEST OK BYE.
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Sojobo



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 2443

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halen wrote:
And you'll remember that the bible is a book written by people thousands of years after these supposed events happened, who were essentially just making it up.

Um.

Zeku was discussing what the elements of the story might represent. That's not at incompatible with the story being "made up" thousands of years after events. In fact, I'd say anyone willing to apply analysis like this to the Bible (asking what the author meant) is going to be less likely to be a literalist or fundie.

I'm not sure why these threads are upsetting you, but this last comment doesn't seem at all fair.
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PeteMoss
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that limitation of knowledge was originally a part of what God had envisioned.

I think the limitation of knowledge was a creation of the church to herd people basically. It makes it easier to herd people and control them if they don't have as high of education or "spiritual" knowledge.

For centuries the only people that could read the bible were the priests, it wasn't until Guttenberg did a German Bible that it was made avaible to the general public.

Luther was condemned by the Catholic church for saying each person should have access to read the bible.

Now anyone can find a bible and pick up and read, but the churches still want some control over what people know and understand. They have so many versions that are translations and interpretations.
If you pick up the New Living translation they use the word homosexual in Exodus, but the word homosexual never existed in the ancient hebrew or greek. There was not even a word similar to it.

Using these "translations" they can still manipulate how the people reading the bible interpret it and utilize the knowledge.
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Cyril



Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 13
Location: Somewhere...

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And the point here is. This comic still is happy for me.
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Katrin



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 293
Location: Some place HAWT

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Y'know, I think this is the real reason Tat does these comics portraying the Devil, God, Seymour, Lil' Evil, etc. in his own particular fashion.

He's tired of people taking them so seriously.

Gawd I love you, Tat...
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OriginalCrazyone



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 112
Location: Smokey Mountains, North Carolina

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see what some of you are complaining about... I personally love seeing this kind of brain stimulating debate going on over the daily strips, and love seeing new people popping their head in that were probably afraid to at the old digs...

I think it has been expressed far better than I can the difference between religon and faith... I am far from a fundie, but I do have faith... I have issues with organized religon, and believe that is where humanity made it's mistake...

Silly fundie, church is for kids!

-OcO-
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Katrin



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 293
Location: Some place HAWT

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'm not really saying nay to a good ol' debate on the endless topic of Gawd, but I don't want anyone getting actually mad at Tat!

I mean sure, he's part of the "Resistance" and the Catholic Church would probably declare Holy War on him if that was what they still did, but c'mon! He's funny.
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Dusty



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 650

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i hope the devil stays in the tree for the next stip and offers up some useless knowledge to monique or slick.
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Sojobo



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 2443

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Katrin wrote:
Y'know, I think this is the real reason Tat does these comics portraying the Devil, God, Seymour, Lil' Evil, etc. in his own particular fashion.

He's tired of people taking them so seriously.

I suspect it is largely a matter of hasty terminology, but I have to say I quite disagree with this thought.

Seymour's problem in this strip isn't that he takes his religion too seriously, it's that he doesn't take his religion seriously enough.

If Seymour wants to take his religion seriously, he needs to study it, to question it, to learn about it, to challenge his faith and grow in it. He needs to develop wisdom and understanding. The strips where he hesitantly mentions to God that he sometimes has doubts are exactly the ones in which Seymour is truly taking God seriously. They actually involve talking to God.

But most of the time, he behaves dismissively toward his religion. He is content with a very shallow and meaningless faith. He is interested in collecting WWJD merchandise, but not interested in actually asking that question.

How would the God character have reacted to the slavation vending machine? the ATM? the devil's confe$$ion booth? Certainly not with acceptance. Possibly with bolts of lightning. Seymour would've known this if he actually spent more time talking with Him, instead of just talking about Him.

VERY IMPORTANT NOTE: I'm absolutely not saying Tat is recommending devotion to everyone. What's right for Seymour isn't necessarily what's right for Slick. It's more about diligently finding/choosing one's own path, rather than letting yourself get shoved onto the road down to the shearing shed.
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Jinx



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3638
Location: America, fuck yeah!

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zorlond wrote:
I recall wandering into those old forums one day, saw someone had made a comment on the comic, and everybody (and I do mean everybody) took turns flaming him into oblivion. And they weren't even pissed over what he said. They were pissed that he dared to mention the Sinfest comic on the Sinfest forums. [sarcasm] Yeah, real beautiful, man. [/sarcasm] I'm quite surprised Tatsuya never did a comic mocking that behavior. Because it was so freakin' ripe, man. And he'd've had you dead to rights, just like he's got organized religion dead to rights now.


I don't know what specific incident of which you are speaking, but I suspect we were sarcastically making fun of ourselves for the fact that about 1% of the threads on the old forum were about the comic.

Of course, without sarcasm tags in our posts, I can see how you would have missed that.
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John Mytton



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 607

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jinx wrote:
Zorlond wrote:
I recall wandering into those old forums one day, saw someone had made a comment on the comic, and everybody (and I do mean everybody) took turns flaming him into oblivion. And they weren't even pissed over what he said. They were pissed that he dared to mention the Sinfest comic on the Sinfest forums. [sarcasm] Yeah, real beautiful, man. [/sarcasm] I'm quite surprised Tatsuya never did a comic mocking that behavior. Because it was so freakin' ripe, man. And he'd've had you dead to rights, just like he's got organized religion dead to rights now.


I don't know what specific incident of which you are speaking, but I suspect we were sarcastically making fun of ourselves for the fact that about 1% of the threads on the old forum were about the comic.

Of course, without sarcasm tags in our posts, I can see how you would have missed that.

It also might have to do with the fact that he's a mouth-breather.
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Zorlond



Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 171

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jinx wrote:
Zorlond wrote:
I recall wandering into those old forums one day, saw someone had made a comment on the comic, and everybody (and I do mean everybody) took turns flaming him into oblivion. And they weren't even pissed over what he said. They were pissed that he dared to mention the Sinfest comic on the Sinfest forums. [sarcasm] Yeah, real beautiful, man. [/sarcasm] I'm quite surprised Tatsuya never did a comic mocking that behavior. Because it was so freakin' ripe, man. And he'd've had you dead to rights, just like he's got organized religion dead to rights now.


I don't know what specific incident of which you are speaking, but I suspect we were sarcastically making fun of ourselves for the fact that about 1% of the threads on the old forum were about the comic.

Of course, without sarcasm tags in our posts, I can see how you would have missed that.

After 4-5 pages of non-stop flame posts, sarcasm tags wouldn't have meant a damn thing.

Sojobo wrote:
How would the God character have reacted to the slavation vending machine? the ATM? the devil's confe$$ion booth? Certainly not with acceptance. Possibly with bolts of lightning.

Actually, I doubt He'd bother with crispy-fying the 'holy commerce' junk. Think about it: Why create Lucifer at all? Why create a Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil? He does things for a reason, and in this case, I'd stay it has to do with the evolution of the soul. Darwin caught on to the mechanism as it applies to the physical body, but the concept can also apply to morality.

And the key to any evolution is removal of the weak. Sickness, weakness, and in this case, predators...
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Amilam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Katrin



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 293
Location: Some place HAWT

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sojobo wrote:
Katrin wrote:
Y'know, I think this is the real reason Tat does these comics portraying the Devil, God, Seymour, Lil' Evil, etc. in his own particular fashion.

He's tired of people taking them so seriously.

I suspect it is largely a matter of hasty terminology, but I have to say I quite disagree with this thought.

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH.


I meant you guys.
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