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Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3966
Location: a quiet little corner of crazy

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay... I've been emailing my dad's sister back and forth this morning. For those of you interested in the exchange, HERE YOU GO.

Fris wrote:
I spoke with Mindi. Apparently, my own father has started a vicious untrue rumor about me. Let me tell you the complete truth here. I do not practice witchcraft/wicca. I have absolutely zero interest in it. I have at least one very kind and generous friend who is, but she doesn't try and push her beliefs on me and I am still friends with her in spite of me believing that the whole thing is bunk. Yes, I have two tiny red wax figures stuck on my front door frame. Did dad ask me what they were? No, he did not. A couple years ago, I received a silver angel medallion as a gift from a friend at church. I decided that what I wanted best was an angel to guard my door and prevent evil from entering. I didn't live in a good neighborhood and worried about the kids and I. So, I prayed about it and posted the little angel above my door as a reminder to me that my little family was being guarded. Maybe it sounds silly, but I slept better afterwards. That angel medallion got packed with all my other things when I moved. It was missing when I moved into my new house. Rather than give up on the idea of the angel guarding my door just because I couldn't find the medallion (and the kids quite missed the angel over the door too and asked about it), I made my own angel. At the time, the only thing I had that was sculptable was a bit of soft wax left over from some cheese. I made a tiny angel figure. Then Xavier wanted to make his own. So I put his up there too. That is the true and honest story of the little tiny red figures sitting on my door frame. I'm not a witch. I'm not a witch. I'm not a witch. I never said anything like that to dad. The very idea is ridiculous. I have to say, it hurts me that no one felt that maybe asking me about it would be a good idea.

Aunt Marla wrote:
I do want to talk to you and I would prefer it in person. I felt that asking Mindi would either alleviate my concerns and drop it or just wait to talk to you in person. Are you affiliated with the Pagan Order? I went on the web site for Boulder and it was very disturbing. The sexual books Mark witnessed and other things are very disturbing. I feel you have views about life, morals, faith etc. that I wish we could discuss so that I knew where you are coming from and you could explain some of your views in light of the Bible and how you see scripture. I would like you to hear where I am coming from. You are a grown woman and certainly able to make your own choices.

I don't want you to feel I am against you. I would have liked an answer to the last email I sent you which was hopefully a dialogue on your veiws. I feel you think your level of IQ makes you superior and you can come across pretty scathing when I don't share your views so approaching you isn't comfortable but I am willing.

I was wrong to go to Mindi and I should have waited till you had recovered and were better able to respond. I am sorry that I didn't check with you first, that truly is the biblical thing to do so you have every right to be offended with me. I hope you will forgive me. Will you? I realize I've hurt you and it may take time for you to forgive me. Will you be willing to enter a dialogue?

Fris wrote:
I'm not affiliated with any Pagan Order. I had to go to google to even find out what you are talking about, and even that wasn't very enlightening. I have NO interest in it. Period. Not paganism, not witchcraft, no voodoo or ouiji boards or anything like that. My boyfriend in Boulder isn't a pagan either. His family aren't really church goers, but I can assure you that he's not hostile to the idea either. His mom sings in an Episcopalian church choir. I don't know what else I can do to reassure you that I'm not practicing or interested in practicing any of that stuff?

I guess I need to know exactly what books he was talking about. And I'd be happy to discuss the other issues with you. Although I will admit that I am currently in a downswing in my walk as I don't read the bible or pray much or enjoy going to church right now. I still believe in God and have faith that he blesses my little family. And although I don't feel close to God right now, I don't worry about it. David went through many periods like this in his life, judging from the Psalms.

One more thing I feel I need to mention here. I'm very glad that I had family with me when I was in the hospital. I appreciate that dad cut his vacation short in order to stay with me. But there were things that he could have done while he stayed at my house to help me that he didn't do. Easy things, like even just moving the mug of tea I'd left in the living room right before I drove myself to the hospital to the sink. He had time to browse the books I had lying out, but didn't have time to move a mug to the sink? Or even put the dishes he used while he was staying at my house in the dishwasher? My pagan friend who lives an hour away drove down the day after dad left and she mowed my lawn (which really needed done) and weeded my yard and garden for me. Spent hours helping me generously with no payment or favor in return. Just something to think about.

Marla, if I ever came across as arrogant because of my intellectual gifts, it certainly wasn't my intention and I apologize. Also, I'm afraid that when I am trying to make a point, it may come across as harsher than I intended as well. I just get so frustrated when I see something that damages the vision of what Christ told us being held up as truth. I also do not like it when an emotional manipulation is used on christians based on an untrue statement of fact. It makes me upset that people don't check their facts and just accept it because it's couched in language that appeals to their own sense of morality.

I definitely forgive you, Marla. I love you and would never shut you out of my life over a disagreement like this. Yes, my feelings were hurt and I may have some anger to let go still, but I do my best to put it behind me because I love you. I am not really angry with you anyway, but am much more upset with dad, since he was the instigator of all this mess.

Auntie wrote:
I have another confession and am going to need your forgiveness and this may be even harder for you. I have spoken with my kids (Angie and Nathan) , Gloria (my dad's aunt), Dawna (another aunt of my dad) and my parents about this. Mark (my dad) had spoken to our parents first. I would like to forward this to all of them if you agree. I need to ask their forgiveness as well. I gossiped and that is something I try hard not to do.. Needless to say I am ashamed and even though it was out of concern I WAS WRONG TO DO IT. I have no excuses for disobeying God's Word. This is going to be much harder for you to forgive and while I can't undo it I will try to make it right with you. I can see that your Pagan friend looks better than I do right now for that I have not only failed you but my Lord Jesus. I have asked His forgiveness and I ask for yours too.

I will pray for you that you can see through my failure and still see an Aunt who loves you and wants for you to grow in faith and and who desires to be a help instead of an hinderance. We may never agree on ideaology. I feel you don't take the Pagan issue as seriously as I do . It isn't harmless or silly or ridiculous. God's Word takes it very seriously. It is from what I can understand highly offensive to God. Paganism and Christianity can't blend. Even delving in it is serious to God. The Bible says in II Cor. 6:14 there is no communion with darkness and light. We are to love those who are in a Pagan or other witchcraft type belief but we need to be on guard when with them and not take their belief lightly. We need to bring them to Christ and if they refuse ...so much of Jesus should be in us that they would not be comfortable with us. I am not in favor of tolerance for every thing somone wants to believe. You have a great opportunity to share Jesus with your friend. You may be instumental in winning her to Christ but she also may be able to influence you to her way of thinking.

I really do love you and your precious children. I hope you can believe it and we can keep at this till we get it healed.

Fris wrote:
Marla, I already knew that you had spoken to the others. Well, not Nathan and Angie, but I didn't expect you to do anything else when hearing such a report from dad. If you hadn't, dad would have told them all. I grew up in this family and this is how it has ALWAYS worked. Quite frankly, it's why I don't share as much of my life as I might otherwise do. It's why I hadn't told dad I was dating someone and had been since November, because my boyfriend and I are not at a point where the relationship is serious enough that I felt the family should know of it. Anyway, my point is that when I said I forgave you, I was forgiving you for all of it. You may forward any part of this discussion to any of them. I'm afraid I don't really want to speak directly with dad about this right now, as I am still really too upset to speak with him in a reasonable fashion. He undid so much of the good that his staying with me while I was in the hospital wrought. It seems as everytime progress is made towards healing in our relationship, he slaps me in the face in one way or another.

Of course I still love you. I still love dad, even though he has hurt and disappointed me many times. I still always hope for reconciliation with my family. I just want you guys to be proud that I'm part of the family and not ever ashamed that I am. I weep about this break, I am angry about it, but I also wish to move past it. Trust, however, is a much more difficult thing to build than forgiveness.

As far as my friend goes, although she has invited me to different things and has recommended books to me, I gently refuse. I am strong enough in my own faith in God that I do not feel uncomfortable consorting with the sinners. I have sinned too, and God loves me. I care deeply about her as a person, as well as her children, and think that although she is very strong in her beliefs, that her children are still forming theirs. And while I don't take them to church with me, I let my own children speak of God to them. And I like to think that because of me and my kids, her children may not think that all christians hate them and spit on them and curse them for being bi-racial children of a witch.

I know you do. I know all of the family loves me, even if it's difficult to show it sometimes. I would also like to move past all this misunderstanding to a healthier place.

*PS Whoops! I just realized that this might sound like I'm accusing you of the above behavior (cursing my friend's kids) and I'm not at all. But it IS the main reaction they have gotten in the very small "christian" community they live in. Her son went to school for an entire year there and invited all of his classmates to his birthday party. Not a single child attended. They get bullied at school because they are the only bi-racial children and their mom is a witch. It's very sad and I hate to think that their only contact with christian people are people who hate them because of their differences.

No response from anyone on that last email yet. I'm sure they're all busy chattering with my aunt over all this. *sigh*

Anyone got some balrog brew?
A person's character is their destiny.
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Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 1885
Location: England

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hex 'em!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow that's a pity. Makes me glad that I'm in a family where if you bow your head during grace and don't get into theological debates you are considered under the umbrella of Christianity (albeit a bit on the fringe).
"And then the sea was closed again, above us."
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Location: Margaret River, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow Kristi, stick with being an intellectual snob. You are a beautiful person who gives alot to this community, especially the old forum. Families, whilst good meaning sometimes create the biggest hurts through their own ignorance, my little brother was in a wiccan coven for a few years but ended leaving them after he got jaded with the politics of the coven. My mother is a charasmatic catholic who has been ex communicated from the church for remarrying, you'd like her, she is a librarian IT teacher, also too smart for her own good but she never tried to disuade my brother from his own journey.

My own personal philosophy is more new age, I believe that there is a life force out there that people label as God but the church has distorted the message through it's own misguided ambitions. Jesus was just an enlightened man, we are All the children of God. Man's vanity has clouded the message. The church ( I use this term broadly and all encompasing in relation to all religions) has become more about man controlling man rather than the quest for enlightenment and personal spirtual growth. Whilst the band wagon has been hijacked by parties more concerned about wealth and controlling others there is not much point going to church. The bible, originally stories designed to illustrate a moral point of view have now been taken as the word of god... I mean really WTF?

My special friend is a witch, a good witch who devotes alot of time in helping others and healing pains created by misguided but well meaning christians who are too blind to realise they are being manipulated by those with less than ideal motivation ie looking good in the eyes of their peers rather than personal spiritual growth. If these people could wake up to themselves the world would be on a much better path.

Every year a group of us get together and burn a wicca man, he symbolises the new year, we attach prayers to him and then set him alight hopefully then bringing some luck to those we love and letting go of past hurts. Pagan yes, evil no. A while back I was pondering life and whatnot and I had an epiphiny. The sacrement of baptism, if you were a witch you would call it a binding of spirit, the binding is achieved by the use of water, ash and oil (if you're a catholic atleast), funny how the church resorts to withcraft when it suits it hey?

If enough people question the motivations of the church there is a chance the world will get past this derailment of spirituality. The only church any of us have to worry about is the planet, it is the most beautiful church created not by man but by that amazing life force which some claim to speak for. That there are certain etheral entities which harbour miscontent and sow seeds of angst is not folklore. Placing angels above your doors to keep them at bay is wise. Positive intent is all it takes. You have had more than your fair share of troubles in your life already but i genuinely hope most are behind you.

Make peace with your family, it sounds to me they are not ready for the truth yet. The truth will set us all free.

Blessed Be.
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The Victim Here

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me, I don't really care.
Live for today, die when it's time.

Colours? What colours?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aw geez Kristi, I am so so sorry. Crying or Very sad
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, Fris.. thanks for sharing that with us. Its really a shame to hear of your family's behavior.. and that your Aunt seemed to only be half-hearing you all along. Hopefully things will sink in and bonds can be reformed.

Best of luck with it all!

And remember stir three times COUNTER-CLOCKWISE for the Balrog Brew. I did it clockwise once and ended up with an Ointment for Fairy Wings. Imagine my embrassment!! Razz
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