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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man you guys are reminding me why I hid in a dark theatre through most of university.
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bitflipper



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
Anything thought to be true just might be proven wrong at a future date.

...including this statement.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's like that old physics joke, where the punch line is, "let's assume a spherical cow..." Only every logical argument assumes, "let's assume we can know anything..." Even though we can't.
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WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
It's like that old physics joke, where the punch line is, "let's assume a spherical cow..." Only every logical argument assumes, "let's assume we can know anything..." Even though we can't.

How do you know we can't?
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitflipper wrote:
Darqcyde wrote:
Anything thought to be true just might be proven wrong at a future date.

...including this statement.

True, but that effectively requires proving everything else true, which might be possible, but is likely to be the least possible thing possible, so it's about as near as one can get to a universal truth--I'd posit it is the foundational assumption for all science, philosophy, and rational thought in general.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
Dogen wrote:
It's like that old physics joke, where the punch line is, "let's assume a spherical cow..." Only every logical argument assumes, "let's assume we can know anything..." Even though we can't.

How do you know we can't?

If I were a pothead you would have just blown my mind.
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bitflipper



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
Dogen wrote:
It's like that old physics joke, where the punch line is, "let's assume a spherical cow..." Only every logical argument assumes, "let's assume we can know anything..." Even though we can't.

How do you know we can't?

Kurt GŲdel did some interesting work* on precisely that question. Pissed the hell out of George Whitehead and Bertrand Russell in the process, too.

My url tags don't seem to like this address, so copy-n-paste or right-click and go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del's_incompleteness_theorems please. Sorry for the inconvenience.
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was being flippant.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

philosophy is a totally unnatural way of thinking because at its core, it demands that you put all your beliefs up for critical examination and questioning. and that shit ain't normal. we aren't even cognitively wired for it. it's hard and weird and uncomfortable to do that. at its extreme, it even asks you to question the validity of your sense-perception data. who sits there and questions whether their sense-perceptions are valid? what would it mean if they weren't? does that mean objects don't exist? how would you know? does it mean other people don't exist? does it mean you're the only one who exists? if you can't trust your sense-perceptions, what can you trust? what if there's some all-powerful entity deceiving you all the time? who the hell thinks about that? a weird person, that's who. you have to be pretty weird to think that God is deceiving you into thinking that you exist.

so, yes, philosophy is a weird-ass unnatural way of thinking. that's why it flourishes when things are going wrong and it raises the possibility that maybe our beliefs are in fact wrong. that's really the only reason why people would start going through that uncomfortable process.
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bitflipper



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
I was being flippant.

Poe's Law, dude; I'm functionally illiterate without smileys!
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So there's a lot of stuff that makes me question those things but I'm not really prone to arguing about it. Of course that is gradually changing with my whole "i should at least try to be assertive..." thing, but generally speaking being super crazy introspective and wanting to hash it out with other people are pretty different things.

Not that there's anything wrong with any of it, really. I think I just want to figure out where I stand in all this.
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bitflipper



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:
I think I just want to figure out where I stand in all this.

Wherever that may be, Samsally, make sure you're wearing your wellies at the time. Wink
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Finnegan



Joined: 01 May 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeD CHiKn wrote:
What is the term for someone who only uses technical terminology when basic, more common words would be OK?

Example: Using "Monozygotic twins" instead of "identical twins".


Not sure what you might call the person themself, but "technical terminology when basic, more common words would be OK" I guess would be considered jargon, and it should really not be overused (if used at all outside of the field to which it is applicable).
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Desire



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 566
Location: AK

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
philosophy is a totally unnatural way of thinking because at its core, it demands that you put all your beliefs up for critical examination and questioning. and that shit ain't normal. we aren't even cognitively wired for it. it's hard and weird and uncomfortable to do that. at its extreme, it even asks you to question the validity of your sense-perception data. who sits there and questions whether their sense-perceptions are valid? what would it mean if they weren't? does that mean objects don't exist? how would you know? does it mean other people don't exist? does it mean you're the only one who exists? if you can't trust your sense-perceptions, what can you trust? what if there's some all-powerful entity deceiving you all the time? who the hell thinks about that? a weird person, that's who. you have to be pretty weird to think that God is deceiving you into thinking that you exist.


I have wondered many of these, many times, actually. Often life is just too ridiculous or painful or dull or crazy to be really real. I believe my perceptions because they are all I have. But mine are not the same as as anyone else I am aware of. So either I am wrong or everyone else is. In a sense, everything is an illusion.
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Usagi Miyamoto



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:36 am    Post subject: Or in the vernacular, "know-it-all wanker" Reply with quote

Finnegan wrote:
DeD CHiKn wrote:
What is the term for someone who only uses technical terminology when basic, more common words would be OK?

Example: Using "Monozygotic twins" instead of "identical twins".


Not sure what you might call the person themself, but "technical terminology when basic, more common words would be OK" I guess would be considered jargon, and it should really not be overused (if used at all outside of the field to which it is applicable).

Perhaps the term you are looking for is "pedant."
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