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Sinfest Strip 7/13
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BobSagat



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Seymour is not just a fanboy, he is based off of stereotypical "Good Christians", and stereotypically, that'd also make him a hypocrite.

As shown by trustedfaith.
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Sojobo



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trustedfaith:

Giving into temptation and doubting God sometimes are not flaws in Seymour's fanboyness. In fact, we have seen the Devil, in person, tempt Seymour directly using foil apostle cards. Seymour's fanboyness is the source of the flaws in his faith. It trumps them.

If the ATM were appealing only to his faith, I think it might have failed, but the status of having giving all his money to God would've been a super-glittery better-fanboy-of-God-than-you badge that he could show off to everyone else. He would absolutely have dived right in.


WheelsOfConfusion:

Spot on analysis, but since your conclusion stops short of predicting an action, I, of course, have to append that Seymour makes a habit of exuberant and loud declarations of piety (and condemnations of others' lack of it) in order to hide his nervousness and squash his qualms. The hints of doubt he feels are exactly why he would overreact by signing up for the ATM as quick as his fingers would let him.


Lasairfiona:

I wanted to discuss the comic; I tried to discuss the comic. Dusty refused. Before generalizing, perhaps you should take a look at my first response to him, in which I quite virtuously refrained from accepting his invitation to fight. I sank to his level only after 2 1/2 insulting posts, when he'd made it clear that his interest was in the insulting rather than the comic.
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Natashabi



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sojobo wrote:
trustedfaith:

If the ATM were appealing only to his faith, I think it might have failed, but the status of having giving all his money to God would've been a super-glittery better-fanboy-of-God-than-you badge that he could show off to everyone else. He would absolutely have dived right in.


I disagree with that. I think if he had actually been offered a "super-glittery better-fanboy-of-God-than-you badge" for all of his money, he would have given it but because he isn't getting anything to show his absolute devotion, to prove that he gave all of his money, he doubts whether he wants to do it or not.
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Sojobo



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A strong point.
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trustedfaith



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sojobo wrote:
trustedfaith:

Giving into temptation and doubting God sometimes are not flaws in Seymour's fanboyness. In fact, we have seen the Devil, in person, tempt Seymour directly using foil apostle cards. Seymour's fanboyness is the source of the flaws in his faith. It trumps them.

If the ATM were appealing only to his faith, I think it might have failed, but the status of having giving all his money to God would've been a super-glittery better-fanboy-of-God-than-you badge that he could show off to everyone else. He would absolutely have dived right in.


I didn't say they were flaws. I said it showed he wasn't a straight fanboy.

In the strip it shows him second guessing giving up his possessions and everything to God. The strips I posted, show him wanting those types of things. Which makes sense, that he would second guess it.
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Bodhisattva



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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Location: Currently Chicago, but variable in the near future.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Character development? Moral dilemma? The Power of Guilt compels him? Where will Tat go next?
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* Proud adopter of the former newbies Lasairfiona, bottm_angel and trustedfaith.
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Lasairfiona



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sojobo wrote:
I wanted to discuss the comic; I tried to discuss the comic. Dusty refused.

Notice I chewed you both out. I understand you biting back but making a post just to counter belongs in casual chat, not when discussing the comic. If you do plan to insult, at least add some content as well. Besides, we adore Tat and don't take well to anyone even seeming to insult his comic.
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Sojobo



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trustedfaith wrote:
I didn't say they were flaws. I said it showed he wasn't a straight fanboy.

I guess I'm not sure what you mean, here. I used the phrase "flaws in Seymour's fanboyness" and you say he isn't a "perfect straight out fan boy." To me, these phrases mean the same thing.

I'll certainly rephrase, though, to be clear: I think Seymour is a perfect fanboy. It is his central trait. His piety and faith, while real, are slaved to its service.

trustedfaith wrote:
In the strip it shows him second guessing giving up his possessions and everything to God. The strips I posted, show him wanting those types of things.

The first two strips you linked showed Seymour being tempted by sex and a cape. They may be examples of imperfect piety or faith or something, but don't really have anything to do with the fanboyness. The fourth strip was similar, in that it was a direct questioning of God - the evil in the world prompted doubts in Seymour. Again, this would much more appropriately be called an imperfection in his faith, not in his fanboyness.

The third strip demonstrated a direct conflict between his faith and his being a fanboy. He was ranting about temptation, but upon getting a glimpse of the Godware, he completely forgot about piety, and jumped right into pure fanboy obsession. He's done this in other strips, too, including, as I noted, the one where the devil tempted him directly with the apostle cards. Seymour's fanboyness trumps his faith. Always. These kinds of strips are exactly why I am calling him a perfect fanboy.

trustedfaith wrote:
Which makes sense, that he would second guess it.

But for Seymour, the whole point of money is to spend it for God and flashy Godware. He is perfectly gullible regarding this kind of scam. Anyone who stamps "for God" on any product has Seymour for a customer.

Perhaps it would be best for me to link a strip? The very last strip we saw with Seymour had a virtually identical setup. He sees a machine that tells him to pay money for salvation. Seymour doesn't consider for a second that money-for-salvation is a questionable trade, or scam of any kind. He doesn't think it would be a waste of his money. He doesn't consider what Godware it would cost him if he spent the money on salvation instead. What he does is lament that he doesn't have the cash on hand to make the purchase immediately. That is Seymour, and his reaction is completely different from that in the strip we are discussing.

---

Lasairfiona wrote:
Notice I chewed you both out. I understand you biting back but making a post just to counter belongs in casual chat, not when discussing the comic. If you do plan to insult, at least add some content as well.

I did. I put it in the following post - the same structure you used for your admonishment_then_comment.

And I wasn't quite just "biting back." Dusty made two insulting posts, but that wasn't all. Afterward he added a third post with no point other than to declare that his purpose was to be insulting. You quoted me quoting him: "this is what i was trying to say with more insults." That's what I responded to.
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Natashabi



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For some reason this strip doesn't seem, to me, to be about Seymour. It is about the modern church and its view that if you don't give all your money to the church and do everything in your power to fund and promote the church, you are not a true believer in god.

Seymour is a god fanboy and even he is unsettled by the idea that there isn't a choice between being a believer and being an atheist, completely and solely based on his willingness to give all of his money to god.

Seymour's dedication to being a fanboy is like any other fanboy or -girl for any other beloved person or group.

A band, for example, should not expect it's fanbase to give all of its money to the band in order to prove their loyalty. The fans are there to support the band by buying concert tickets and CDs and other merchandise. This is exactly what Seymour does.

I do not think this strip degrades his fanboy image. I see it as commentary on the modern churches, especially the televangelist types.

This is actually part of why I don't go to church... it's all about money. I prefer to beleive that religion and religious expression should be about God.
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Sojobo



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree entirely that the strip is not about Seymour. I hope I'm not giving the impression that I think it is. I am complaining only that I think the line in the last panel does not fit in with Seymour's character. It is a line the God character might speak, or Criminy, or maybe a Dragon Fanboy* or something, but it really doesn't suit Seymour very well.

*Tat, if you happen to read this, please, please, please, please create a Dragon Fanboy character.
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Katrin



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well if that's the very core of the argument, that you think Seymour's fanboyish-ness surpasses his human conscious, that's your opinion... Personally, I think it really suits Seymour nicely. Probably because I don't really see him the same way you do. I think Seymour wants to be the ultimate fanboy, he wants to be the perfect believer, he wants God's love, but I think that in the back of the mind, he's still unsure as to just what the hell he's doing.
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Natashabi



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If any other character had said that line it wouldn't have had any meaning at all.

If even the devout fanboy thinks there is something wrong with the "fact" that either he gives all his money to god or he is an atheist, that means that everyone should question that idea.

Criminy would have never said it because he would have 1, never been in the situation and 2, gleefully accepted the second option.
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Sojobo



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Katrin wrote:
Well if that's the very core of the argument, that you think Seymour's fanboyish-ness surpasses his human conscious, that's your opinion...

The last time we saw Seymour, eight strips ago, he had absolutely no hesitation in wanting to pay for salvation. I base my thinking "Seymour's fanboyish-ness surpasses his human conscious" on the fact that it just happened eight strips ago. He does not react negatively to the idea of paying for salvation.

Natashabi wrote:
If any other character had said that line it wouldn't have had any meaning at all.

I'm not saying another character could have given it meaning. I'm saying that other characters might have said it, whereas Seymour would not have.

Natashabi wrote:
If even the devout fanboy thinks there is something wrong with the "fact" that either he gives all his money to god or he is an atheist, that means that everyone should question that idea.

You did look at the last strip I've been pointing out, right? Eight strips ago Seymour had no problem with the idea. Do you really think adding the single word, "all" creates a deep change in the ethical depth of the situation?
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Natashabi



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sojobo wrote:
Seymour had no problem with the idea. Do you really think adding the single word, "all" creates a deep change in the ethical depth of the situation?


I didn't "add" the word all. It's IN THE STRIP!

And yes, I do think it makes a HUGE difference.

A person, traditionally, was only asked to give 10% of their income to the church, called tithing. There is a 90% discrepancy between all and 10%.
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Sojobo



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't saying you added the word. I was saying that is the only difference between the two situations, and is insufficient justification for the wild difference in reaction from Seymour.

Re: Tithing:
There is no question in my mind that if this issue was brought up, Seymour would denounce tithers as giving too little.
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