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11/15 - Mischievous intentions!
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Major Tom



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 7562

PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yep,

just saying "not this but that" would have been helpful
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rm



Joined: 25 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love how much homonym and homophone are synonyms!
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xebra



Joined: 19 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rm wrote:
the primary definition says that homonyms are the same in sound and spelling, which the two words in question are not.

That is, in fact, not the primary definition at the link Yarko provided. No, really. I know you must have enormous faith in your reading comprehension abilities, but you made the same mistake Yarko made, apparently.

rm wrote:
homophones only sound the same, homnyms both sound and are spelled the same. therefore donut was wrong and yarko right and xebra wrong and usagi both right and wrong. or something.

Nope, try again! I don't want to sound insulting, but honestly, just read the page. It's all there. I know it's more fun to argue than learn, but this is getting ridiculous.
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Secret



Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 5429

PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Except that if you followed the "homophone" link there, you'd find

1. Phonetics. a word pronounced the same as another but differing in meaning, whether spelled the same way or not, as heir and air.

And for "homonym", def. 2 is

2. a word the same as another in sound and spelling but different in meaning, as chase “to pursue” and chase “to ornament metal.”

So the best conclusion, if both are true, is that the proper use of "homonym" is as a subcategory of "homophone" with the same spelling.
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MellowFish



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or to be really tricky, cleave has two opposite meanings:

What god has cloven toegether let no man cleave apart.
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CoolChristian



Joined: 18 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you know, this has absolutely no relevance to anything whatsoever, but MF, i love your location that you provide Wink
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xebra



Joined: 19 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Secret wrote:
So the best conclusion, if both are true, is that the proper use of "homonym" is as a subcategory of "homophone" with the same spelling.

Definitions are not simultaneous. Anyway, if you were curious about the proper usage of the words, you could have read the rather lengthy discussion halfway down the page, which, miraculously, agrees with me.

Recap and Summary of Findings
  • The primary definition of homonym is the primary definition of homophone; that is, both words are most commonly understood to mean words of like pronunciation but different meaning regardless of spelling.
  • "Homonyms are, in the strictest sense, both homophones and homographs, alike in spelling and pronunciation, as the two forms bear. Homonym, however, is used more frequently than homophone, a technical term, when referring to words with the same pronunciation without regard to spelling. Homonym is also used as a synonym of homograph. Thus, it has taken on a broader scope than either of the other two terms and is often the term of choice in a nontechnical context."
That is, while homophone and homograph are examples of those technical terms Yarko likes to be so anal about, homonym is not, as it has become the term of choice for either or both of the two meanings. In this way does language evolve and life go on.

And with that, I bid you farewell. It has not taken me long to remember why I dislike public forums and most other people in general. Later, gators. Something tells me we won't miss each other.
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WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xebra wrote:
And with that, I bid you farewell. It has not taken me long to remember why I dislike public forums and most other people in general.

A tendency to remind you of yourself?
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rm



Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 4073

PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xebra wrote:
rm wrote:
the primary definition says that homonyms are the same in sound and spelling, which the two words in question are not.

That is, in fact, not the primary definition at the link Yarko provided. No, really. I know you must have enormous faith in your reading comprehension abilities, but you made the same mistake Yarko made, apparently.


yes it is. the linked #1 word "homophone" is not a definition. #2 says, and I quote, "a word the same as another in sound and spelling but different in meaning, as chase “to pursue” and chase “to ornament metal.”

xebra wrote:
rm wrote:
homophones only sound the same, homnyms both sound and are spelled the same.

Nope, try again! I don't want to sound insulting, but honestly, just read the page. It's all there. I know it's more fun to argue than learn, but this is getting ridiculous.


I didn't need to read the page because I actually know what a homophone is, and what a homonym, is. but, just so you get it, here's the definitions provided by wiki:

Quote:
homonym: A homonym is a word that has the same pronunciation and spelling as another word, but a different meaning.

homophone: A homophone is a word which is pronounced the same as another word but differs in meaning.


see? just what I said before. now you may shut the fuck up forever, thank you.
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Mizike



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CoolChristian wrote:
you know, this has absolutely no relevance to anything whatsoever, but MF, i love your location that you provide Wink


It has often perplexed me as Dune is one of the most anti-religious (not just organized religion) series I've ever read.
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Silver



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 37
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, I never got MellowFish's signature till I read the Wiki on 'Dune'.

*Ohhh, I get it!*
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rm



Joined: 25 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

after re-reading all the above nonsense about homonyms and phones and such and then doing some further reading elsewhere, I have come to the conclusion that it is all a bunch of hooey. the precise and most commonly used meanings of those words are as I have given them, and all other meanings and cross-meanings are debatable... as proven in this thread. the point is, they are in no way fixed, nor has, as xebra suggested, the english language adopted one or the other of these variously ambiguous meanings as the rule. indeed, most references disclaim confusion in practice, though authoritative texts give the meanings as stated before: nyms must sound and be spelled the same, phones must sound the same. therefore I stand by everything I have said to this point.
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Last edited by rm on Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Silver



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 37
Location: No telling where I'll be

PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why are we arguing about grammar, definitions, etc. (read: English class) in a webcomic forum, in the actual section about the comic?

Note: This can be applied to a lot of the hijacked threads.
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rm



Joined: 25 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

because that's what we do.
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Major Tom



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's our due
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