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"P.C."

 
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ZigzagPX4



Joined: 26 May 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:31 pm    Post subject: "P.C." Reply with quote

What's your reaction to anyone using the term "politically correct" to support or attack an argument?

Come to think of it, I'd like to ask the same for "SJW", too.
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Arc Tempest



Joined: 28 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experience politically correct is a term almost exclusively used by unrepentant dickbags deflect any accountability for (or discussion of) their own behavior.

SJW is little different save for the fact that some of the people who adopt the moniker are just terrible as the people who use it as an epithet.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, "politically correct" seems to have be entirely co-opted by people disparaging the term to try to obscure the fact that they want to continue belittling people who are not like them.
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Arc Tempest



Joined: 28 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty much.
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Mr Gary



Joined: 30 Apr 2009
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Location: Some pub in England ... Uh, I mean, Scotland ...

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't have an electric fire in the bath any more ... in case the queers see it.
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Drooling Fan Grrl



Joined: 02 Feb 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://neil-gaiman.tumblr.com/post/43087620460/i-was-reading-a-book-about-interjections-oddly

"I was reading a book (about interjections, oddly enough) yesterday which included the phrase “In these days of political correctness…” talking about no longer making jokes that denigrated people for their culture or for the colour of their skin. And I thought, “That’s not actually anything to do with ‘political correctness’. That’s just treating other people with respect.”

Which made me oddly happy. I started imagining a world in which we replaced the phrase “politically correct” wherever we could with “treating other people with respect”, and it made me smile.

You should try it. It’s peculiarly enlightening.

I know what you’re thinking now. You’re thinking “Oh my god, that’s treating other people with respect gone mad!”"
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Echo



Joined: 18 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xkcd fora have a word replacement filter thing that replaces "political correctness" with "basic human decency". It's quite funny watching the uninitiated run into it.
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

part of my job involves yelling at people for swearing in the arcade and sometimes i phrase it "keep your langage pc" just to watch the dudebros twitch.

(if they don't stop I'll follow up with "i will literally kick you out if you don't stop swearing" and then "get out" and the glorious part is that they actually have to leave.)

oh hey this actually reminds me. anyone know what the US laws are about businesses and wearing porny shirts or ones with swear words on them? according to my boss they aren't as clear cut as i woulda hoped. like, i figured if its a privately owned business we'd get to set the rules, but that might not be the case.
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Sam



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

most (i would guess something like 9 out of 10 people seriously using the term) complaining about 'political correctness' are people who have had society's norms shift out from under them and are upset and a little bit frightened that one of those changes is that there's an emerging taboo against casually bigoted behavior that they have normalized and internalized for their entire life, which occurred at the expense of one or multiple minority facticities.

This vigilance and the rapid expansion of those things which are suddenly taboo — and which they have probably never, from their position of relative privilege, analyzed very hard or presumed to be very damaging in the first place — is growing so fast and making things that they did casually become super bad things you can't do anymore, and they think it's totally gay and retarded.

This is somewhat normal human behavior. It's an oddly strange thing for most people to now have to analyze what things you can't even say anymore, that used to just be ubiquitous terms and phrases that were ubiquitously incorporated into your language. There will be plenty of haranguing and divisive strife during such a transition, because people get locked into habits that are hard to change, and which become increasingly more sclerotic as we age.

For instance, most people wouldn't have even raised an eyebrow at my calling shit gay and retarded a couple of paragraphs ago (myself included) not too terribly long ago. It's an example of a relatively sudden and invasive taboo. It's ultimately a good taboo (as we should not be calling things gay or retarded, and our relatively quick rejection of an expanding sphere of slurs is the growth of a positive trend overall) but it's new and weird and seems oddly forced on a lot of people who are conditioned, in varying strengths, to find the change pressingly obnoxious and controlling.

Groups who are more inclined to justify bigotry are more inclined to rationalize this away as 'runaway political correctness' and the term appropriately finds itself getting the most mouth traffic among those sorts of people who are really just upset that their own casual bigotry is no longer easy or so immediately and safely projectable.

The other maybe 1 in 10 people who are concerned about runaway political correctness include people like teachers who are probably rightfully concerned about a trend of inflexibly dogmatic intrusion and requests for very authoritarian control over what kinds of thought and deed are allowed so as to avoid offense. But their conversations, being much more broadly minded and studiously crafted to be self-judging as well, are too boring to hold people's attention like donald trump does when he complains that political correctness gone amok is why people get their knickers in a twist when he pretty much calls most mexican immigrants dirty rapists.

Such is life.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:
oh hey this actually reminds me. anyone know what the US laws are about businesses and wearing porny shirts or ones with swear words on them? according to my boss they aren't as clear cut as i woulda hoped. like, i figured if its a privately owned business we'd get to set the rules, but that might not be the case.


i am not a lawyer buuuuuuuuuuuut that'd probably be local or state laws, but yeah, going into an all-ages arcade wearing some obscene clothing is fair game to kick you out, in the interests of keeping your arcade an all-ages space. and they can't really claim discrimination because "people wearing porny/vulgar shirts" is not a protected class.

https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/the-right-to-refuse-service-can-a-business-refuse-service-to-someone-because-of-appearance

http://www.business2community.com/trends-news/right-refuse-service-businesses-discrimination-0766551
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
Samsally wrote:
oh hey this actually reminds me. anyone know what the US laws are about businesses and wearing porny shirts or ones with swear words on them? according to my boss they aren't as clear cut as i woulda hoped. like, i figured if its a privately owned business we'd get to set the rules, but that might not be the case.


i am not a lawyer buuuuuuuuuuuut that'd probably be local or state laws, but yeah, going into an all-ages arcade wearing some obscene clothing is fair game to kick you out, in the interests of keeping your arcade an all-ages space. and they can't really claim discrimination because "people wearing porny/vulgar shirts" is not a protected class.

https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/the-right-to-refuse-service-can-a-business-refuse-service-to-someone-because-of-appearance

http://www.business2community.com/trends-news/right-refuse-service-businesses-discrimination-0766551

I'm too lazy to look, but from I worked at the canoe place, we spent a lot of time on federal lands (parks along the Delaware River) and I'm like 90% (pretty sure, but not totally positive) sure that having explicit depictions of pornography and obscene words were a big no - no and might carry anywhere from minor fines to severe penalties. So this would also apply to other big 'G' Government places like the U.S. post office and court houses as well as federal parks.

This is all kinda-vague-half-remembering, but I wanna say that SC is correct and that someone linked to some stuff a while back when we were discussing whether or not reading 50 Shades in public counted as reading porn in public and what the implications were. I'm thinking wearing shirts falls under 'displaying media' so there's probably some line of reasoning along the lines of "your shirt is R-rated, wearing it could be problematic around some adults and children, please change, turn it inside out, or leave" that store owners can fall back on. Also I'm thinking that you have A LOT more power in legal terms if you A) have signs displayed clearly stating rules and policies and B) have complaints from third parties i.e. non store employees.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:46 am    Post subject: Re: "P.C." Reply with quote

ZigzagPX4 wrote:
What's your reaction to anyone using the term "politically correct" to support or attack an argument?

Come to think of it, I'd like to ask the same for "SJW", too.


On a completely different note, I love attempts at issuing P.C. statements used in practice by actual politicians and other public figures -- especially when it goes really bad because it's the source of so much great comedic fodder, especially when it exposes ignorance and racism in its failings, like when that student proposed giving Vermont a Latin motto and one of the great responses was:
Quote:
“Hell No! This is America, not Latin America. When in Rome do as the Romans do!”


http://wonkette.com/575109/vermont-proposes-official-latin-motto-wingnuts-tell-vermont-to-go-back-to-mexico
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Last edited by Darqcyde on Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Yinello



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you guys heard of the latest Anne Rice debacle? She goes on how PC people are censoring her (by giving her negative reviews, oh noes!). It seems she's forgotten how she censored all fanfic writers by banning any fiction of her work on most public sites.

It seems people are only too PC or SJW if they do something others don't like.
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Timpie



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've noticed that a fair share of the people that use 'SJW' have no real idea of how often it is used as a blanket term to disprove certain opinions and trains of thought. For them SJW is a term used to describe the rabid and hostile group of people that send death threats and the like to individuals that voice any opinion that's 'wrong' in the eyes of the SJW's dogma's.

Can't hold it against them for using the term, it's the only way they see it used.
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:33 am    Post subject: Re: "P.C." Reply with quote

ZigzagPX4 wrote:
What's your reaction to anyone using the term "politically correct" to support or attack an argument?

Along the same lines as the xkcd forum:
https://twitter.com/byronclarknz/status/628702214391902208

Quote:
Come to think of it, I'd like to ask the same for "SJW", too.

Perhaps there is a vocal minority of Internet Idiots who are counterproductive to the aims of their supposed affiliations and purposes. Maybe there really are irrational and spiteful man-hating lesbians. Maybe there really are people out to censor your religion, in the legitimate sense of the word "censor." Maybe some people are more than reasonably sensitive to racial issues and see slights where none exist.

But because of the coordinated, constant, and intentional use of the term "SJW" by the likes of the original #gamergaters I can't see it as anything other than yet another pejorative invented by people with utterly repugnant views of humanity used, like "Politically Correct," to dismiss any suggestion that they themselves are not acting fairly or humanely.
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