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would u sell ur soul?
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filecore



Joined: 27 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sojobo wrote:
It's just that this kind of story always feels like it expects a response of general outrage. And it's really just not outrageous. It's small. It's very, very small.


I know. I'm not saying I was scarred for life (as you seem to have interpreted it) but I'm sure that even your razor-sharp intellect can see that there are good methods for preaching and converting, and there are bad methods. Think what you will, I was just highlighting an example. Of the latter, incidentally.
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Dro



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sojobo wrote:
It's just that this kind of story always feels like it expects a response of general outrage. And it's really just not outrageous. It's small. It's very, very small.


Oh, so you were feeling like filecore's story may 'expect' a response of outrage, so you decided to preemptively rail against such possible outrage. Clever.

Well, I'm outraged. But I'd be satisfied with the teacher being warned and fired. So I guess we all agree.
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Sojobo



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

filecore wrote:
I'm not saying I was scarred for life (as you seem to have interpreted it)

But you were careful to mention that you were "about 11, young and impressionable" (which made me smile, since you didn't really seem all that impressed). Smile

filecore wrote:
there are good methods for preaching and converting, and there are bad methods.

Nothing to do with good vs. bad methods of preaching - preaching doesn't belong in public schools at all. Just like cursive.


Dro wrote:
Oh, so you were feeling like filecore's story may 'expect' a response of outrage, so you decided to preemptively rail against such possible outrage. Clever.

I was aiming more for roll-of-the-eyes/smartass/cute.

Actually, it's mostly boredom.

And I wanted to mention how much I hated cursive. They fucking graded me with a "Not Satisfactory" in cursive. Fuckers.
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Lasairfiona



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holy crap he pissed off Dro. No outrage I could express could come close to what just happened here.

I agree with you Dro. I supose some people just don't understand how impressionable little children are.

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Sojobo



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasairfiona wrote:
I supose some people just don't understand how impressionable little children are.

Because disagreeing with you about something is a clear indication of general ignorance?
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filecore



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sojobo wrote:
filecore wrote:
I'm not saying I was scarred for life (as you seem to have interpreted it)

But you were careful to mention that you were "about 11, young and impressionable" (which made me smile, since you didn't really seem all that impressed). :)


Actually I wasn't, but I'm sure that there probably are some people in that class who actually were scarred for life by the experience. Hmm, thinking back on who was in that class, I can think of a number who I'd like to see scarred for life... but yes, I do agree, religious preaching in general and scripture specifically (except in studies, for example, the bible as literature, or cultural, sociological or anthropological approaches) should be kept out of schools. There's actually a lot of good stuff in the bible, from a literature point of view.

Maybe I should ask God to send a number of bears to rend Dro's skin from his body, even though I'm sure he's no longer a little child (2 Kings 2:23, to pick a random example).

Incidentally:

Quote:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?


Good ol' Epicurus.
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Mr_Moustache



Joined: 01 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sojobo wrote:
Lasairfiona wrote:
I supose some people just don't understand how impressionable little children are.

Because disagreeing with you about something is a clear indication of general ignorance?


Quote:
And if you are going to think that it is because I am not intelligent enough or because I don't have the will, I might have to hurt you. Smile


Nope. You'll just end up in a world of pain Shocked
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Sojobo



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand your point, Mr_Moustache.

I did not call Lasairfiona's intelligence or will into question, but rather wondered at the link between my lack of outrage (accompanied by mention that the teacher should be fired, btw) and my not "understand[ing] how impressionable children are."
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Inept Villain



Joined: 12 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MellowFish wrote:
yay mouse for the sophosticated response.

As for the fundie vision version:

When you start life, the devil already owns you like a credit card company does anyone over 21 (thousand dollars in debt that is, not age per se). So "selling your soul" is like accruing more debt while making minumum payments on your soul. In the end you die and the repo man comes to take your soul. So you get it up the ass in the end whether you "sell your soul" or try to pay it down.

Think about it: title loans are 365% intrest compounded monthly. But soul loans must go for quite a bit more and are probably compounded daily at least. Do you really think you can pay off anything but intrest at those rates?


Either that was the most backhanded analogy of all time, or you're actually admitting that the devil has more claim to human lives than God does. So what is God then? The rich snob guy who will pay off your debt if you bawkaw/dance like a chicken in order to amuse him? In addition to telling him how superior he is to you in every way, of course. Flattery is key when trying to get money out of an almighty yuppie.

I've never quite understood the whole "Devil" mentality. In fact, the Sinfest devil realized that he was a pawn quite some time ago. Apparently he just went back to it because he was fated to do so. His personal crisis was never fleshed out. What's more, the devil essentially punishes people for being evil, and thus God keeps his own oh-so-holy hands clean while the devil is villified. God's agenda is actually *furthered* by the existence and actions of the devil. It makes no sense! You'd think the devil would do something smart to defy God, like reward the wicked instead of conning them.
The only viable explanation is that God did, indeed, create the devil for the sole purpose of doing his dirty work. That way God wouldn't have to attach his name to the "Evil" franchise, even though he is the true source of all misery and suffering.
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Sojobo



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inept Villain wrote:
What's more, the devil essentially punishes people for being evil, and thus God keeps his own oh-so-holy hands clean while the devil is villified.

The Devil character in Sinfest seems to punish evil, and it is a common understanding, but that's not really particularly Christian. The Devil is among the punished, not really a punisher.

Inept Villain wrote:
God's agenda is actually *furthered* by the existence and actions of the devil. It makes no sense!

The Devil tempts people away from God, and toward evil. This doesn't further God's agenda. It is your assertions that are making no sense.

Inept Villain wrote:
You'd think the devil would do something smart to defy God, like reward the wicked instead of conning them.

You mean rewards like offering power, money, fame, etc.? Where are you trying to go with this?

Inept Villain wrote:
The only viable explanation is that God did, indeed, create the devil for the sole purpose of doing his dirty work.

Or there's the explanation that you've erred several times in setting up your "problem" of evil.
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Funkentelechy



Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see how hell could possibly be all that bad. Okay, sure, it's hot -- it's skin-crisping hot -- but so what? It'll be unpleasant for a while, of course, but you're stuck there for eternity. Might take you a few years -- hell, it might take you a thousand -- but at some point, it just won't seem that bad any more. Once you get over the constant pain you'll realize the whole place is just an empty threat, because it can't kill you. You might even start to enjoy yourself. Hell, why not make the best of it? You've got infinity years to waste, you might as well make the place feel like home.

I would try to have a good time, anyway.
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ashcraftthepirate



Joined: 01 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always gotten the impression that hell, if it exists, is designed so you can't get used to it...

It's not like you'd be dealing with a corporeal body whose nerves would become numb to the pain... Not to mention the specifially tailored mental anguish you'd experience...

Granted, I don't view hell in the traditional sense... I figure it's a sort of karmic waypoint for you to reslove your issues and learn your lessons before moving on to other aspects of existence; not a burning domain of pain ruled over by Lucifer.
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Twister87
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see it as figurative only - an extreme of pain and suffering that should be used to compare situations/things/places to or some such. Hell as a place doesn't exist to me, it is simply a mythological idea.

edit: and that's the 500 up
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Lasairfiona



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sojobo wrote:
Lasairfiona wrote:
I supose some people just don't understand how impressionable little children are.

Because disagreeing with you about something is a clear indication of general ignorance?

I am saying you are at least uninformed on child psychology. Not only is forcing a particular religion on a child bad on many levels (especially since those of that ilk tend to be of the fire and brimstone sort), the abuse that is implied is horrible. A teacher should never behave in the way that was described.

And the Devil is punisher as well as punishee acording to the Bible last time I checked though perhaps you are refering to the idea that he isn't the punisher working directly for God. The Devil is also furthers God's agenda. See Job.

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After much deliberation he gave her a giant comfort zone. - Michael
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kame



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A teacher attempts to indoctrinate her students into a religion.

Outrage.

Indoctrinating kids into religions is obviously a parent's job, duh.
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