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Signing the cartoons
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Lemontree



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3298

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bun bun wrote:

At the moment I'm staying in Ooyama, just near Ooyama Station, off of "Happy Fun Road" (I am not making this up), north Tokyo, close-ish to Ikebukuro. I leave on Sunday, however. Big elephant tears *sobsob*.

Don't forget, kanji were stolen wholesale from the Chinese. The readings have been totally altered, so it is spoken differently, plus Japanese is an inflective language, you know all this because you're taking Japanese. Anyways, don't forget that the origins of kanji sometimes make no sense when viewed in a Japanese context, because the pictoral origins are Chinese...

Also, all kanji are somewhat angular, which is why things like stones come out as square. There is one radical that's an exception, and it's a biotch to draw right, when you're using it in a sentence. Here it is, in the kanji for "to commute", or "to attend school" with the readings "kayo(u)" or "tsuu":

And again in the kanji for "week", pronounced "shuu" (this one only has one reading, as far as I know):

Even this evil little squiggle (EVIL. eeeevil. ESPECIALLY when writing "two weeks (duration)" in kanji. I ALWAYS mess it up, and growl annoyedly, and have to start over.) is made somewhat angular for printed kanji. These pictures are actually halfway between handwriting and typewritten.
The reason for this is easy discernability. Once you start learning a lot of kanji, you'll find that having to draw a lot of really tiny straight lines, hooks and squares is a lot easier than having to draw a neat circle or curve in such rushed/cramped conditions. The reason everything is squared off is purely utilitarian, so that when you get to kanji with 20 strokes, it won't look like scribbles. It's easier to link lines together when they're straight, too.

EDIT: Also, they had a problem drawing a stone as just a plain square because that kanji was taken. Voila: "kuchi","kou", "ku", or "mouth".


Yeah, I understood the part about angular design and the origins of them being from China.. (though for a moment I did have a brain fart about the second part). And that "mouth" was already assigned and used, thats why I found the depiction of a stone so unique.

The truth is I studied Japanase. Its been almost 4 years since my last class though. (2 years of High School japanese, 6-weeks in Okinawa Japan, and 1 semester of japanese at a community college) So at my height I knew probably close to 300 kanji.. Now I'd safely bet I'm back to less than 75. Thats why I find your kanji lessons so entertaining and educating. ^_^

Oh and I'll also say.. I'm oddly happy I got out before I met a 20-stroke Kanji... though thats not to say that I don't miss the language very much. I love the way it flows off the tongue. Ahh.. to be bilingual in anything.. thats a goal I need to strive harder to achieve.
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bun bun
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heh, you knew more than I do, then. Sorry for coming off patronising, if I did.

I just love languages in general. This one in particular, because it's even hard for its native speakers, and is thus a neverending challenge.
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Lemontree



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3298

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bun bun wrote:
Heh, you knew more than I do, then. Sorry for coming off patronising, if I did.

I just love languages in general. This one in particular, because it's even hard for its native speakers, and is thus a neverending challenge.


You're fine. And I know for a fact that I don't know more than you right now. I'm so very very rusty. >_<

But yeah, gotta love languages. I'm just happy I grew up with English and don't have to learn it as a second language.. because I'm sure its probably the hardest one out there. I actually never found alot of trouble with Japanese.. but then I came into it with three years of Latin under my belt, and ANYTHING was going to be easier than that. Latin and I are no longer friends. We had a really bad breakup.

=b
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Natashabi



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 390
Location: Tejas

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lookie:

He has a third signature used at least once:


He apparently approves of "Tat".

Oh, wise kanji guru, what about this one?
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bun bun
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That, my dear, is Ishida again, just written in haste. Here, I go to my trusty Japanese digital camera (her name is Hikachimaru, by the way, bad joke on my part, meaning "one whose essence brings light"), and my trusty kanji pen (he has remained nameless, unfortunately).

Step One: Writing Ishida slowly and carefully (sorry for my form; I was holding the camera in between my eyes and the paper):










Step Two: What you see in this comic (well, OK, approx.):

Which is the same thing, but quickly written (often when kanji are written quickly, stroke order goes to hell. Note that I'm not 100% sure about the correctness of my stroke order in the above photos...'cause I studied these kanji a good while ago).

Eheh, not that I'm completely sure that my theory is correct, either; the quality of the image isn't good enough to see 'em clearly. *squints*
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The Victim Here



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For being Awesome, bun bun, I award you this medal.

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Lemontree



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*applauds*

Also in other news, I like that he stuck "Ishida" on the t-shirt of Pooch and Percy's owner, in today's (7/20) strip.

Thats always been the coolest thing about Tat.. is the detail he sneaks into his comics. Especially anything in frames behind characters' heads.

Very Happy
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bur



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lemontree wrote:
But yeah, gotta love languages. I'm just happy I grew up with English and don't have to learn it as a second language.. because I'm sure its probably the hardest one out there.

Really? Most people say english is one of the easier languages. For example there is just one article, not too many cases and less irreglar verbs than in other languages. From my experience french and spanish are much harder. Can't tell about german because that's my native language, but from what I heard it's quite a bitch with three different articles and four cases.

Japanese on the other basically isn't hard, but just very different from the romanic/germanic languages. And of course all the kanji are hard to memorize.
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Desire



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 587
Location: AK

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think maybe people say English is so hard because one word can have so many completely different meanings.
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Michael



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and the way there's so many exceptions to every rule you end up just memorising every word/sentence seperately
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Lemontree



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3298

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desire wrote:
I think maybe people say English is so hard because one word can have so many completely different meanings.


Michael wrote:
and the way there's so many exceptions to every rule you end up just memorising every word/sentence seperately


Precisely.

Also, I heard from a marine in Okinawa once, that he was stationed in Germany for a couple of years and found it to be the easiest language he's ever learned. Though I have a german friend.. I haven't really sat down with her and tried to learn it.. so I don't personally know if his statement is true. Just going on what I heard. Smile

And yeah, I think thats also whats so intimidating about asian languages to westerners.. its just such a completely different phonetic structure.
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Varst Kolcimb



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 1041
Location: Any where I want to be

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bur wrote:
From my experience french and spanish are much harder.


Man, French is ten times easier than english. Speaking as a student taking French as a second language it makes SO MUCH more sense than english in the way sentences are formed and with verb conjugation.
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trustedfaith



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Romance languages are pretty easy, English has way too many exceptions to the rules. They all follow similar patterns anyways, deriving from Latin.
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PeteMoss
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bun bun wrote:
Eheh, not that I'm completely sure that my theory is correct, either; the quality of the image isn't good enough to see 'em clearly. *squints*


The stroke order was correct except for the first two strokes of the second character were reversed.

Actually both boxes were incorrect. You should have done the horizontal first, then the left vertical line.

Stroke order is: Top, left, right bottom
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PeteMoss
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lemontree wrote:
Desire wrote:
I think maybe people say English is so hard because one word can have so many completely different meanings.


Michael wrote:
and the way there's so many exceptions to every rule you end up just memorising every word/sentence seperately


Precisely.


This is the reason it is the most difficult language. in every other alphabetic language, each letter has the same sound every time.

English each letter can change the way it sounds just by the way it is used.

Live (long I) and Live (short I)

Sugar (sh sound) ans Sum (not sh sound)

It is the only known language to have such inconsitencies.
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