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bush finally uses his veto
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E-boy



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 1552
Location: Virginia (Much barfiness)

PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too true Sam, too true....


*Observes a moment of silence for the death of common sense*



OH! I meant to mention. Being that this "morality" issue appears to be another manifestation of, among other things, certain fundamentalist values I'm reminded of a really good book. Intrestingly it's by an extremely religious man and called "Searching for Darwin's God" if I remember correctly. The point is, is that it's a rather strong refutation of things like ID. The author makes a convincing argument that IDers and other fundamentalists are actually being rather insulting in their view of god.

I still don't believe in god, but I don't have a problem with folks who do. I prefer they don't froth at the mouth though.
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E-boy



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

and before anyone gets their panties in a wad I know there are people other than the religious right with opinions on this. I just like picking on the religious right.
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WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:49 pm    Post subject: Re: still waiting for the agamemnon take Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
We will fund the everloving fuck out of stem-cell research, in time.

We are, just not federally. That would mean the American people were funding murder.
Private funding of murder is A-OK according to Bush's policy.

And Eeb, just to let you know public radio had an episode of Speaking of Faith devoted to "Understanding Darwin" the other day. It was an interesting listen.
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kame



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 2565
Location: Alba Nuadh

PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:15 pm    Post subject: Re: still waiting for the agamemnon take Reply with quote

WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
Sam wrote:
We will fund the everloving fuck out of stem-cell research, in time.

We are, just not federally. That would mean the American people were funding murder.
Private funding of murder is A-OK according to Bush's policy.


Yes, I'm sure the 152 (modern era record!) people he executed as governor of Texas are pleased as punch that Bush refuses to support murder with public funds... Rolling Eyes

Honest to Christ, the sheer scale of hypocrisy involved with these far-right christian nutters boggles my mind.
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Natashabi



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 390
Location: Tejas

PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron White (comedian) -

Quote:

I'm from Texas and in Texas we have the death penalty and we USE it. If you come to Texas and kill somebody, we will kill you back. That's our policy. They're trying to pass a bill through the Texas legislature right now that will speed up the process. If you commit certain heinous crimes and there's more than three credible eyewitnesses... if three witnesses saw you do what you did, you don't sit on death row for 15 years making appeals. You go to the head of the line. Other states are trying to abolish the death penalty. My state is putting in an express lane.


I don't remember what year this was but I think it's still one of his regular bits.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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kame



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: Alba Nuadh

PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Natashabi wrote:
Ron White (comedian) -

Quote:

I'm from Texas and in Texas we have the death penalty and we USE it. If you come to Texas and kill somebody, we will kill you back. That's our policy. They're trying to pass a bill through the Texas legislature right now that will speed up the process. If you commit certain heinous crimes and there's more than three credible eyewitnesses... if three witnesses saw you do what you did, you don't sit on death row for 15 years making appeals. You go to the head of the line. Other states are trying to abolish the death penalty. My state is putting in an express lane.


I don't remember what year this was but I think it's still one of his regular bits.


That quote makes my brain hurt.
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E-boy



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll endorse the death penalty when they can conclusively show that false confessions (at present it's been shown with current interrogation techniques in the states that there is a possibility of frighteningly high false confession rates), Eye witness testimony (one of the most unreliable forms of evidence EVER! If you don't know this already see studies on witness reliability. You can google them. Also see inattentional blindness), supposedly reliable fingerprint evidence (on occasion finger print convictions have been turned over by DNA evidence. Unlike DNA evidence there has been very little, if any, work to demonstrate exactly how unique fingerprints are. The same goes for dental impression evidence) have been sufficiently improved to assure no innocent people are ever executed. Additionally a better understanding of the science behind DNA evidence and procedures for processing said evidence by lawyers, jurors, and judges really needs to be achieved.

In the mean time I can't support it. It's worth noting that death row inmates in most states go through years of appeals before execution. That actually adds up to more costs than life in prison does for tax payers (although this is certainly a debatable topic).

As for the current administration's hypocrissy in issues? It's not about morality like I said. It's about politics, and influence peddling.
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Natashabi



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 390
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kame wrote:
That quote makes my brain hurt.


How do you mean?

Here's Ron White actually performing it. It's at the end, starts at 3:50.

<3 for Ron White.

Edit: Let me also add that I'm not a particular fan of the death penalty, I just thought the particular quote was very fitting for the conversation, and I think Ron White is amazing.
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kame



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Natashabi wrote:
kame wrote:
That quote makes my brain hurt.


How do you mean?

Here's Ron White actually performing it. It's at the end, starts at 3:50.

<3 for Ron White.

Edit: Let me also add that I'm not a particular fan of the death penalty, I just thought the particular quote was very fitting for the conversation, and I think Ron White is amazing.


For the reasons E-Boy outlined, and for the pure hypocrisy of it. If you think killing people is wrong, how do you justify killing people for killing people?

The death penalty, I believe, is state sanctioned murder, and is viewed by most other countries as a barbarism. Want to know who your contemporaries are on this issue?

Death penalties by country (2005)
1. China (1770)
2. Iran (94)
3. Saudi Arabia (86)
4. USA (60)

Ahhhh, you say, those countries execute people for non-capital crimes! Does this really make a difference? I doubt it, if someone goes off their rocker enough to kill someone in a pre-meditated manner, then the use of the death penalty as a deterrent is pretty marginal. And if the person in question is innocent, well that just opens up another huge can of worms.

Then again, if you're just trying to be funny, then good on you, and ignore whatever I've said. Very Happy
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Natashabi



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kame wrote:
Then again, if you're just trying to be funny, then good on you, and ignore whatever I've said. Very Happy


Yeah, that's exactly what it was (trying to be funny) but I won't ignore what you said because you're right, as is E-boy.

I'll expand on what I said in my edit on my last post, I don't think the death penalty is an acceptable punishment for crimes. Two wrongs shouldn't make a right, putting a person to death because it's "for the good of society" is a load of crap, and when you have the belief that killing is wrong there shouldn't be any exceptions.

I don't think I've quite gotten the hang of making humor obvious in a written forum, or of recognising it, actually. Oh well, I'll hopefully figure it out soon enough.
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Krazy Stixx



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the state can kill people, why can't I?
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kame



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krazy Stixx wrote:
If the state can kill people, why can't I?


There's my new signature! Anyway, weren't we discussing stem cell research? Jesus, I'm here two weeks and I'm already steering topics way off course. Razz
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Bart



Joined: 22 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raise your hands if you've never steered conversation of topic.

Don't wory everyone does that around here
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Natashabi



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bart wrote:
Raise your hands if you've never steered conversation of topic.

Don't wory everyone does that around here


So true.

Just check back at page 2-3. Mouse even says it's normal and to be expected.
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