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The Wii U Death Vigil (again)
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:

so where does this leave the grandmas?


In my current non-cheated game I never bought any. I clicked 500 times and bought a farm as my first building instead.



I'm trying to get more heavenly chips, k
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mouse



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i commend you. it is clearly more saintly to add to your wealth by tilling the fields than by trading in the human flesh that is grandmothers.
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CTrees



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish the shadow achievements counted. I'm kind of proud of my (non-cheating) Neverclick. Currently tempting my patience with trying for True Neverclick, though I'm not getting any darn golden cookies to appear. *grumble*
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Snorri



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heretical Rants wrote:

with upgrades, grandmas are better than most of the other low-level (below portal) game objects, I suppose (though that's not saying much)


Only things producing more than my grandmas is time machines and cursors at the moment. I got 150 of them though but even at 100 they would bake more cookies than my portals.
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

okay, let's do a little test in cheated game

1e12 cookies worth of grandmas vs 1e12 cookies worth of portals

with relevant upgrades such as can be immediately bought

*maths*
CONCLUSION: at reasonable numbers of each, without the Grandmapocalypse, portals are ~1000 times more effective than grandmas

more grandma upgrades close the gap up quite nicely, though

let's look at what ALL upgrades, (including the Grandmapocalypse-inducing ones), gets you
Code:

Game.HardReset();
Game.RuinTheFun();
Game.cookies = 1e12;

for (var i = 0; i < 200; i++) {
  Game.Objects.Grandma.buy();
}

Game.cookies = 1e12;

for (var i = 0; i < 200; i++) {
  Game.Objects.Portal.buy();
}


that gives you 13.4Mc/s grandmas to 5.4Mc/s portals

the elder gods are powerful indeed
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Last edited by Heretical Rants on Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heretical Rants wrote:
okay, let's do a little test in cheated game

1e12 cookies worth of grandmas vs 1e12 cookies worth of portals

with relevant upgrades such as can be immediately bought

CONCLUSION: at reasonable numbers of each, portals are ~1000 times more effective than grandmas

more grandma upgrades close the gap a bit


Your math is flawed

You're forgetting some of the bonuses Grandma's get like from portals and such.

I have 165 GRandmas making approx 16 million while my 100 portals make only 6 million
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no it wasn't
I said with upgrades such as can be immediately bought
grandmas were only pulling ~2k cookies per second
~8k with bingo

grandmapocalypse research makes 1kkkk worth of grandmas ~10k times more powerful, which comes to ~2.4 times more effective than 1kkkk worth of portals

that's 151 grandmas to 81 portals
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Last edited by Heretical Rants on Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now what's the cost breakdown?
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I already posted the code I ran, and also the results.




Grandmas are still just a drop in the bucket (and more hassle than they're worth) when you're just trying to collect heavenly chips quickly, and they're not worth it at all until you're in the post-bingo era.

They're less than one-third as effective as time machines at the 1kkkk cookie price range (time machines get 43.5Mc/s) with all of their apocalyptic upgrades, woooooooooo
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm somewhat tempted to run the numbers on what the optimal amount of each thing relative to each other are

I'm guessing that in the <100 time machine range you should try not to buy more than ~20 more portals than you have time machines, or ~60 more grandmas than that, and of course clickers also get better the more buildings you have, so...


balancing everything right, you might even be able to get your cookie production rate to be almost a time and half more efficient than it would be with time machines alone

wow, that would be amazing Rolling Eyes
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Last edited by Heretical Rants on Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:02 am; edited 3 times in total
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CTrees



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hahahaha! I have finally achieved a non-cheating True Neverclick!

Goddamn golden cookies giving me production boosts when my production was still 0 cps...
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Code:
> Game.missedGoldenClicks
ten bajillion


fuck
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I made a Very Important Chart



with all upgrades, at 1,000,000,000,000 cookies worth of each building bought

Mc/s = millions of cookies per second




and a slightly deceptive pie chart to illustrate proportions



which should also serve as a very rough guide for how many cookies you should spend on each thing for optimal returns, if you want to be some marginal fraction more efficient than you would be with just time machines


it's also worth keeping in mind that cursors wouldn't be quite so effective without all those other useless buildings (hundreds of farms etc), since they scale with non-cursor buildings, so the value of cursors is overestimated here, and time machines are even more dominatingly effective than illustrated
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The real question: Which is less productive: a time killing game or the data analysis of said game? Wink
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The unexamined computer game is not worth playing." - Socrates.
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