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Life's Horrors
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 2765
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ennis, you can always have all of my e-hugs if you want them. That just blows major what you had to go through. I find it hard to understand mindsets of people like your dad, maybe I don't want to. It shouldn't be that hard to just to accept who you are.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maintenance just opted not to show up today, so our dryer is still broken. We are running out of clean clothes, and I have to try and get them to call me back for another appointment - and if they are available tomorrow I have to cancel everything to stay here.

I'm so pissed at maintenance, because this has been a repeated problem - not really with when we ask them to come fix something, but when they say they are going to come by for routine checking on things. I'll try complaining to the apartment complex about it, but when I have before, they just say to complain to maintenance - like the maintenance company just mysteriously showed up one day and started fixing stuff, and the owners just have no say in what happens.

Then the dog got sick, and I left the stove on when I was out. So I went to melt some chocolate, and it just burned immediately, filling the apartment with amazing smoke. Amazingly the smoke alarm didn't go off.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watching your friends turn into anti-vacs Crying or Very sad
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3429
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gender policing is fail, and it's amazing how effective it can be at making you feel horrible. And it is bizarre people do hold the opinions they do about. I bet he wouldn't think loving cats meant a trans woman was actually a woman.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yinello wrote:
Ennis, you can always have all of my e-hugs if you want them. That just blows major what you had to go through. I find it hard to understand mindsets of people like your dad, maybe I don't want to. It shouldn't be that hard to just to accept who you are.


i sort of understand - it sounds like Ennis' father believes that there is a hard-and-fast line between males and females, and the idea of someone crossing that line seems like a cat turning into a dog - just something that can't happen. and it especially can't happen to his child - hence his fear that Ennis will change his mind in a few years (doubtless when he meets the right girl, or something). i suspect part of it is also fear for Ennis - fear that he will be hurt, emotionally or even physically - and the only way he can think to protect Ennis is by insisting he remain as he "is", or rather who his father thinks he should be. it can be really hard to accept a major change in someone you love.

it's kind of sad that he thinks guys can't get mushy about cats - but it seems to go with his ideas about the differences between men and women. it makes me wonder what feelings he himself has repressed, because he believed them to be 'unmanly'

but it sounds like your psychologist is in fact on the ball, Ennis - hope you guys together can make your dad accept the situation.
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Ennis



Joined: 09 Jun 2013
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Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the support, everyone. We had a group session with my dad the day after, I don't think it went great but it also didn't go terribly. Like he might have moved just a tiny bit towards acceptance of the fact that this (transition) is going to be a thing I'm going to do, and I'm not going to wait ten years or something ridiculous. My psych was really helpful, having someone "on my side" made having the conversation so much less stressful than when I was on my own and would just be bombarded with invalidation dressed up as concern (except is it "dressed up" if someone genuinely thinks that's the right way to be concerned?). I think my psych may have also finally convinced him that it's not mental illness causing me to feel this way, but rather people's non-acceptance causing me to be kind of mentally ill. But yeah, even when told how pronouns and stuff are actually really important to ~not making me feel like shit~ he still just used "she" 99% of the time. Like maybe a few times he'd kind seem to remember and be like "she... he?" but then just be like "she she she" in the following sentences. He also made a stupid remark about using "it" for me. And lots of "but people know I have a daughter". Oh, he also said that I "didn't seem to have any male traits" and now I wish I'd snarked back something like "Sorry did you want me to objectify women? Avoid anything feminine like the plague and say "no homo"? Become taller even though it's basically physically impossible?". Sorry I haven't repressed myself enough for you, father.

But related to that, it's so hard to unlearn social conditioning from childhood, especially with regard to speech patterns. Fortunately I have at least managed to stop using a high "request voice" but there are a lot of other speech patterns I sort of dislike that I have no idea how to get rid of or replace. I've changed how I walk, but now I'm kind of worried it's not enough. But I don't want to do some kind of ridiculous swagger, I'm just aiming for neutrality. I don't know, maybe I'm just paranoid. But ever since it being confirmed that yes, my dad does indeed take notice of "feminine" actions I'm worried (moreso than usual) that other people are also evaluating me based on them and that's why even though people use my name, I still get called "she".
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sounds like he really can't accept that you aren't going to be his daughter any more. and unfortunately, that's something he probably has to work through on his own. at least he hasn't shut you out entirely.

as to your speech/voice - i should think a speech coach or vocal coach could help. actors often get coaching to learn new accents or speech patterns for specific roles - maybe someone like that? (apparently, the american accent for males involves a much deeper tone than an english accent - i am frequently surprised when i hear english actors who have played americans talk in their normal voices - i could hardly believe the guy who played mcnulty in 'wired' was even the same guy, when i heard him in an interview.)
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i admit fully i am one of those people who has the hardest goddamned time with he/she switches. like many people i just get real freaking hardcoded and it is really difficult for a while to start just innately calling people the right genderificatifiers

one way in which it is unintentionally easier for me is that i pretty much literally for any person or group of people use 'hey dudes' or 'hey guys' or 'yo duuude' so FtM friends think i'm all ON THE BALL with the switch and i'm like oh lol nope i call erryone dude
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^
Pretty much what Sam said.

************************
************************
************************

My horror isn't new, and not a singular event. It's more of a "straw that broke the camel's back" sort of thing.

So it's become common for a LARGE PORTION (no clue to numbers) of American youth (can't speak for other countries) to use, as their default slang terms for males and females, "my nigga" and "bitch". From my own casual observation, it's usually the former for referring to males, the latter for females, but it's often switched up, especially when spoken and used between friends. Sex of the speaker or the person being referred to is often irrelevant.

Now I know this is all sorts of problematic, but that's not the horror (but it leads to it) that I realized today.

No, the horror is this: A portion of these people NOT ONLY see no issue in this, but ACTUALLY THINK THESE ARE THE DE FACTO PRONOUNS FOR MALE AND FEMALE e.g. if asked to write a sentence for a school assignment, instead of writing 'He went to the store.' they would put 'This nigga went to the store.'; instead of 'She got a glass of water' they would put 'Bitch got a glass of water.'

I watched this whole exchange between a group of young people on facebook and except for the use of "this nigga" and "bitch" in place of he and she, him and her, it was overall good english.

I was so stunned by the surrealness of the revelation it took me a while to become horrified.
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Martian Kyo



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 1519

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I searched for book quotes and replaced the female pronouns with 'bitch' and male with 'nigga'. I came across http://bestbookquotes.tumblr.com/


The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo by Stieg Larsson. wrote:

In the evening nigga went to the cinema to see ‘The Lord of the Rings’, which this nigga had never before had time to see. Nigga thought that orcs, unlike human beings, were simple and uncomplicated creatures.


The Marriage Plot by Jeffrey Eugenides wrote:

What made Madeleine sit up in bed was something closer to the reason the bitch read books in the first place and had always loved them. Here was a sign that the bitch wasn’t alone. Here was an articulation of what the bich had been so far mutely feeling. In bed on a Friday night, wearing sweatpants, the bitche's hair tied back, the bitch's glasses smudged, and eating peanut butter from the jar, Madeleine was in a state of extreme solitude.


While, funny at some level those words really ruin the quotes. Just shows that words aren't 'just words', they alter our perception of what's being said...and of who's saying it.

Then again, they ARE just words, just sounds or letters which by themselves hold no intent...language is such a peculiar phenomenon, which never ceases to amaze me.

This is not a direct reply to you Darq, it was mostly inspired by what you said.
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Darq: Dang, what? That definitely feels like we fell into the world of Dali when he was watching MTV. Can't believe people think that's acceptable.
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Ennis



Joined: 09 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
sounds like he really can't accept that you aren't going to be his daughter any more. and unfortunately, that's something he probably has to work through on his own. at least he hasn't shut you out entirely.

as to your speech/voice - i should think a speech coach or vocal coach could help. actors often get coaching to learn new accents or speech patterns for specific roles - maybe someone like that? (apparently, the american accent for males involves a much deeper tone than an english accent - i am frequently surprised when i hear english actors who have played americans talk in their normal voices - i could hardly believe the guy who played mcnulty in 'wired' was even the same guy, when i heard him in an interview.)


I think I'm going to wait until I get on hormones and my voice changes, then I can tell how much of it is patterns and how much is solved just by having a deeper voice. And I'm not english or american, do you know what the tone is for australians?

I had dinner with him and my mother tonight (at home), he's going back to the Philippines tomorrow. It didn't go too badly in that fortunately we didn't talk about me being trans (I was severely worried that they'd gang up on me) but it's clear that my father isn't going to make an effort to not misgender me. He said something about me being an actress. Like I know pronouns are hard (but neither of them make any kind of effort) but for god's sake gendered words like that? Especially when "actor" is neutral anyway? I also got referred to as a "housemaid" at one point.

It really messes with my head that they're so nice and affectionate to me, but then almost seem to "forget" to change anything other than the name they use for me. It just makes me feel like they don't care and actually don't accept me, they're just humouring me with the name and the rest is "too much". And because that's their attitude (and believe me, I am not guessing at this, I have been told this in more oblique terms or alternatively after long painful conversations made vague promises to try to change that they don't follow up on) I just can't bring myself to attempt to correct them during a "normal" conversation. I still feel deep down that I don't deserve to inconvenience people. I walked all the way around the couch to sit next to dad at the kitchen bench instead of asking him to move his chair in a tiny bit so I could get past, which I think basically sums up my attitude.

People at uni still call me "she" too and it's always so quick I don't have a chance to say anything. Even though I'm technically "out of the closet" I feel like I'm still half in it and that that's not going to change until people see physical changes they can't ignore. So it's like on the one hand I'm kind of nervous about hormones and changes, and on the other it's like "I WANT TO BE ON THEM RIGHT NOW WITH SO MANY CHANGES SO PEOPLE STOP THINKING IT'S REMOTELY OKAY TO CALL ME FEMALE TERMS". It probably isn't a healthy way to make a decision, feeling almost forced into it because otherwise people don't gender you correctly. But that just seems to be how it is for trans people. I guess next time the GP or psych or whoever asks me "are you sure about this?" I should just think of whenever I'm in a social situation or look in a mirror. Because I seem to be the most sure at those times.
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Echo



Joined: 18 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Knowing a couple of people who've gone male->female, they've not had much luck with hormones suddenly making people stop misgendering them, intentionally or otherwise. Particularly anyone who's known them for a while and has a... set view of who they are that doesn't immediately and wholeheartedly adapt to them transitioning.

Mind you, that's a very different situation - voice is a big thing, and hormones don't un-break anyone's voice, so things might turn out very different - but you may still end up having to yell at someone before they actually care enough to pay attention to what they say and stop making you feel bad.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hm....don't know about australian vs english/american. i was just really struck by how much lighter and higher-pitched dominic west's voice was in interviews than as mcnulty, and i've noticed it in other english actors as well. ultimately, the absolute pitch doesn't matter; it's sounding most appropriate for where you are. i mentioned it because it was the most marked example i could think of, in how much the sound of a person's voice can change.

for the rest - i hope people aren't doing it knowing it makes you feel bad - i hope it's just that they don't really understand how bad it makes you feel. and parents may have the hardest time accepting that you aren't what they think you are (on oh, so many levels!)

but don't think of it as inconveniencing people, and especially don't think that you don't deserve to inconvenience them. think of it as if they were calling you be the wrong name (and not just your previous name, some totally different person's name). if you correct them, you are preventing them from looking foolish - which should hardly be an inconvenience.
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Yinello



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm so annoyed at my colleagues for planning IMPORTANT SHIT on a freaking friday afternoon when I'm allowed to go home earlier.
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