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Life's Horrors
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Thy Brilliance



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3572
Location: Relative

PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yinello wrote:
I'm so annoyed at my colleagues for planning IMPORTANT SHIT on a freaking friday afternoon when I'm allowed to go home earlier.


Well, the upside is that at least you be considered to be a much harder worker by your boss.


Usually, giving employees the option of leaving work early on a certain day is a trap made by management to give an excuse to put a blemish on your record.

I'm not sure how cutthroat your office politics is though, may be nothing to worry about at all.
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Celaeno



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thy Brilliance wrote:
Usually, giving employees the option of leaving work early on a certain day is a trap made by management to give an excuse to put a blemish on your record.

I'm not sure how cutthroat your office politics is though, may be nothing to worry about at all.


I thoroughly disagree with this. In any healthy (even healthily competitive) work environment, employees can be given flexible hours as a perk and are a sign of trust. (Why would we give a poor performer flexible hours when he isn't doing enough in the time given?) Any employer who gives you the option of leaving work early and then penalizes you for it is shit. Don't work at places that do that. That is not the norm.

Let me caveat: this may be fairly US-centric because that's where my experience is, and I live in an at-will state. I can't claim to understand how employment works elsewhere, but Thy's comment still sounds excessively cynical.
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Arc Tempest



Joined: 28 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, yeah. It's Thy. Cynical and crazy are the trademarks.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10782
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was on my way to drink beer with one friend, then meet another friend for a bonfire, when my engine idle got weird... so I pulled over and parked, having had this happen once before (idle sensor went bad). Just as I stopped my engine temp shot into the red and white smoke started pouring out from under the hood. Got out and there's coolant everywhere, under the car, all over the engine... Hopefully it's just a hose, but since it's dark and I don't have any coolant I'm now waiting on a tow truck.

Ugh, cars.
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Thy Brilliance



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arc Tempest wrote:
Well, yeah. It's Thy. Cynical and crazy are the trademarks.


right right, 3 promotions and 4 raises over the course of 5 years of hard fucking work was just thy being that crazy cynical guy that he is



There's no such thing as working hard enough.

You can always work harder.

If you don't put your heart and soul in your work, if you don't love doing your job 60 hours a week, then maybe you don't have the right job.



Maybe some dream of an easy life where they can relax and have fun, but that sort of life just isn't for me.

I have a different type of dream, and it isn't fair to call me crazy for pursuing that dream.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thy Brilliance wrote:
Arc Tempest wrote:
Well, yeah. It's Thy. Cynical and crazy are the trademarks.


right right, 3 promotions and 4 raises over the course of 5 years of hard fucking work was just thy being that crazy cynical guy that he is



There's no such thing as working hard enough.

You can always work harder.

If you don't put your heart and soul in your work, if you don't love doing your job 60 hours a week, then maybe you don't have the right job.


Maybe some dream of an easy life where they can relax and have fun, but that sort of life just isn't for me.

I have a different type of dream, and it isn't fair to call me crazy for pursuing that dream.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, but I'm pretty sure that none of the above has anything to do with why someone here would call "cynical and crazy" your trademarks.

Also, Thy, I don't disagree with you, but I do think you might be over generalizing a bit. I mean, I would go so far as to say a lot of companies have very flawed methodologies in their promotion to and hiring of lower and mid-level managers. It's really complicated and crazy deeply entrenched in many places, but I think it often comes down to upper management looking for some non-existent or mistakenly calculated pareto optimum which is further exacerbated by poor metrics and misguided analysis. Probably the #1 issue is a myopic view of costs vs. benefits, something which has arguably become a norm all across various business cultures, both within the U.S. and elsewhere.

It's the type of mentality that generally stifles creativity, innovation, and general advancement in all sorts of fields.
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Celaeno



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thy Brilliance wrote:
Arc Tempest wrote:
Well, yeah. It's Thy. Cynical and crazy are the trademarks.


right right, 3 promotions and 4 raises over the course of 5 years of hard fucking work was just thy being that crazy cynical guy that he is



There's no such thing as working hard enough.

You can always work harder.

If you don't put your heart and soul in your work, if you don't love doing your job 60 hours a week, then maybe you don't have the right job.



Maybe some dream of an easy life where they can relax and have fun, but that sort of life just isn't for me.

I have a different type of dream, and it isn't fair to call me crazy for pursuing that dream.


See, THIS I agree with.

What I don't agree with is that your employer would offer to let you go early on Friday in an effort to put something on your record. Sure, maybe you, Thy, would never take the flex time if offered, but that doesn't mean that people who do are necessarily viewed negatively by the company.

Some of the hardest working people I know have flex time on Fridays, but they still put in a ton of hours and are crazy productive over the course of the week. I've managed some of them, and I would never offer flex time to employees I thought would abuse it or would be less productive. Leaving early on Friday doesn't mean lazy.
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Celaeno: I think what Thy's referring to are situations where flex-time on Friday is meant to be an incentive yet there are managers who will try and spin leaving early as a sign negative performance. I would point out thought that there are all sorts of reasons that a manager might do this, but chances are they aren't good reasons.
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Celaeno



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
Celaeno: I think what Thy's referring to are situations where flex-time on Friday is meant to be an incentive yet there are managers who will try and spin leaving early as a sign negative performance. I would point out thought that there are all sorts of reasons that a manager might do this, but chances are they aren't good reasons.


And I would argue that there should not be any managers who will dock you for leaving early if those are actually your hours which is what the situation sounds like here.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Celaeno wrote:
Darqcyde wrote:
Celaeno: I think what Thy's referring to are situations where flex-time on Friday is meant to be an incentive yet there are managers who will try and spin leaving early as a sign negative performance. I would point out thought that there are all sorts of reasons that a manager might do this, but chances are they aren't good reasons.


And I would argue that there should not be any managers who will dock you for leaving early if those are actually your hours which is what the situation sounds like here.


Exactly! They were the people I was referring to when I said: a lot of companies have very flawed methodologies in their promotion to and hiring of lower and mid-level managers.

Aside from the really shitty stuff like nepotism and what not, there's still a lot of people who don't get that excellent workers are not always the best suited for management.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right, so shitty managers exist, and non-shitty managers exist. The question is whether: "Usually, giving employees the option of leaving work early on a certain day is a trap made by management to give an excuse to put a blemish on your record."

My experience is that it's not usually the case. Maybe other industries are different. Retail, for instance, is the pits and had the worst managers I've ever experienced. But they also never let anyone go home early.

I've never had an experience where I was allowed to leave early as a trap. I would also GTFO if that ever seemed to be the case (sometimes easier said than done), because I don't need that kind of insecure bullshit at work.
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My ISP
sigh . . .
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Mr Gary



Joined: 30 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obviously I'm an expert on office politics, because I have worked in an office for three (3!!) consecutive weeks. My findings are that if you leave 'on time' you're not pulling your weight. I felt terrible the first time I left 'just' 15 minutes late, even though I had cleared my workload & offered to help any colleagues with theirs. I have even begun to stockpile the most mundane, non-time-sensitive work for after 16:30. It's bullshit, given that so much of office work seems to consist of chatting about lunch, or tv, or generic chit-chat. I know I can do my 8 hours work in 6 hours, and so can all my colleagues. But pointing this out is Turkey Votes For Thanksgiving. Maybe it's just the company I work for. Can't shake the feeling that 80% of office workers who say they work hard would die confronted with a day in retail or leisure.

But what would I know?
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Gary wrote:
Can't shake the feeling that 80% of office workers who say they work hard would die confronted with a day in retail or leisure.

But what would I know?


This. When people here gripe about how "we can't raise minimum wage to $10+ an hour -- you don't deserve that for flipping burgers" I can ask them if they've ever done it and they invariably deflect a straight answer.
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sporko



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
Mr Gary wrote:
Can't shake the feeling that 80% of office workers who say they work hard would die confronted with a day in retail or leisure.

But what would I know?


This. When people here gripe about how "we can't raise minimum wage to $10+ an hour -- you don't deserve that for flipping burgers" I can ask them if they've ever done it and they invariably deflect a straight answer.


uh to be fair there are several different things that make a job "hard work"

yeah i might not be in a hot environment for 10 hours with a constant threat of grease fire, but then again, the kid at mcdonald's also doesn't have to figure out why some lady's body is paralyzing itself from the feet up before it gets to her diaphragm and kills her, and neither of us are faced with the pressure of handling multi-million dollar accounts for picky, wishy-washy clients.

work is not supposed to be easy, not if you're really trying.
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