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15th December 2007 - A Beautiful Disaster
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reasonablymad



Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 6783

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why are you asking me?
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Pytheus
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeD CHiKn wrote:
The thing about reincarnation I dont get is the population is always increasing, where are all the extra souls coming from? Or are souls being watered down and reincarnated in 2 bodies?


There is different beliefs. Hindus believe we can reincarnate to animals and insects. Some believe that it follows bloodlines. As one person posted, could be from other worlds. I don't assume all the souls have already been born into mortal forms. As old souls reach their goals there are new ones to take their place. There could be an enormious amount of souls waiting for their chance at life. Who really knows.
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DeD CHiKn



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 10227
Location: Baltimore, Maryla*gunshot*

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reasonablymad wrote:
why are you asking me?


Because you were there.
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Pytheus
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just want to make a disclaimer. If you think my ideas are stupid cause its not what the bible says, your right. But I think I made it clear I don't follow the bible. I formulated my own beliefs based on what I know and took ideas from other religions. And I appriciate the input from those less hostile parties cause I use that new insight given to expand, change, and evolve my ideas.

My ideas may not make sense to you. But thats alright cause you can't make sense of just the bits and pieces I've given out. Can't give a book report on a few random sentences. I hope to someday be able to put it down on paper. I want to write a fantasy book giving a whole new angle of religious beliefs. Well, I'll have someone write it for me and I'll be illustrating. I consider this research. Your helping me figure out what works and doesn't so thanks Smile
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Snorri



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 10878
Location: hiding the decline.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pytheus wrote:
Just want to make a disclaimer. If you think my ideas are stupid cause its not what the bible says, your right. But I think I made it clear I don't follow the bible. I formulated my own beliefs based on what I know and took ideas from other religions. And I appriciate the input from those less hostile parties cause I use that new insight given to expand, change, and evolve my ideas.


I think that because it's not what the bible says it makes it less stupid.
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Finnegan



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 1080
Location: in that cool mountain air, on an appalachian trail

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeD CHiKn wrote:
The thing about reincarnation I dont get is the population is always increasing, where are all the extra souls coming from? Or are souls being watered down and reincarnated in 2 bodies?

the belief that old souls reincarnate does not exclude the possibility that new souls are created. unless it does.
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Secret



Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 5429

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pytheus wrote:
Dam secret lighten up. Told you not to take it so serious. This is all theorycraft, no real substance to any of this. Doesn't matter what is the right answer cause there is none.


What a curiously easy way for you to avoid actually defending the statements you've made.

Grieve it or leave it, bub.

Vox Raucus wrote:
Point is, we don't come preprogrammed with concepts of good and evil. They're socially constructed. If you're going to blame God for the human capacity for ethical reasoning, he should also get the credit for your rebuttal of Pytheus' vacuous opinions.


Well, we can grant that. It doesn't interfere with my point that if it's God's system, then he should be able to set it up any way he wants, including in a manner which will cause humans never to percieve any evil.
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Pytheus
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Secret wrote:
Pytheus wrote:
Dam secret lighten up. Told you not to take it so serious. This is all theorycraft, no real substance to any of this. Doesn't matter what is the right answer cause there is none.


What a curiously easy way for you to avoid actually defending the statements you've made.

Grieve it or leave it, bub.


I don't need to defend my statements. There is no factual data to back anything up. Just an exchange of ideas. You don't have to like or agree with them. But you don't need to be an ass hat about it either.
Quote:

Vox Raucus wrote:
Point is, we don't come preprogrammed with concepts of good and evil. They're socially constructed. If you're going to blame God for the human capacity for ethical reasoning, he should also get the credit for your rebuttal of Pytheus' vacuous opinions.


Well, we can grant that. It doesn't interfere with my point that if it's God's system, then he should be able to set it up any way he wants, including in a manner which will cause humans never to percieve any evil.


Your talking as if free will was conditional upon what god desires, which makes no sense. Let me ask you so I'm clear on this. Do you believe in free will? Cause the way you make it sound, free will is an illusion and we are all doing gods will even if we don't know it. Its like setting a chess board up so your opponent can only make the plays you want, yet another sucky anology.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 17588
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vox Raucus wrote:
Point is, we don't come preprogrammed with concepts of good and evil. They're socially constructed.


we may actually come preprogrammed with the concepts of fair and not-fair, which underly a good deal of good and evil.
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Secret



Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 5429

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pytheus wrote:
I don't need to defend my statements.


Wow.

Quote:
There is no factual data to back anything up.


That's why I'm not asking you for factual data. Asshat.


Quote:
Your talking as if free will was conditional upon what god desires,


I said what now?

Quote:
Do you believe in free will?


No.
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Vox Raucus



Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 1266
Location: At the Hundredth Meridian

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Secret wrote:
Pytheus wrote:
Do you believe in free will?


No.


Fatalism is so boring. I don't know how you manage.

Secret wrote:
It doesn't interfere with my point that if it's God's system, then he should be able to set it up any way he wants, including in a manner which will cause humans never to percieve any evil.


The hugely overrated Christian apologist C.S. Lewis wrote that even God is subject to the principle of non-contradiction; therefore he could not have created a world in which freedom meant only one possible option. Just throwing it out there. I guess it depends on what a person means when they say God is omnipotent.

Also (in response to some of the ideas in the other thread), I find it curious that people consider the potential for evil more significant than the potential for good. If God created free will, why should it matter *more* that we can choose evil than the opposite alternative? I don't get it.

mouse wrote:
we may actually come preprogrammed with the concepts of fair and not-fair, which underly a good deal of good and evil.


I had to stop and think about this for a moment. At first I was tempted to agree with you, but now I'm not so sure. Certainly history doesn't show regard for fairness, in the treatment of women and other races, etc. If we reduce it down to an individual level, our concern for fairness applies most strongly to things being "fair" in our favour, and doesn't that relate it more to an instinct for self-preservation?
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 17588
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vox Raucus wrote:
Certainly history doesn't show regard for fairness, in the treatment of women and other races, etc.


does history believe that sort of thing to be 'good'?

what is doing good to another, as opposed to doing evil? does not treating him fairly (which includes just punishment, when they do 'evil') generally result in you doing good?
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Pytheus
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Secret wrote:
Pytheus wrote:
I don't need to defend my statements.


Wow.

Indeed. I can explain them. Defending them is different.

Quote:

Quote:
There is no factual data to back anything up.


That's why I'm not asking you for factual data. Asshat.


Then what are you expecting in a defense? Can't defend speculation.

Quote:

Quote:
Your talking as if free will was conditional upon what god desires,


I said what now?

Quote:
Do you believe in free will?


No.


There is the problem. You think god has a plan. Free will cannot be possible in a pre-determined future. Unless that future is determined by the individual, not god. You can't possibly agree with anything I'm saying if you don't believe in free will.
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kame



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 2565
Location: Alba Nuadh

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How many pages until we'll find John Locke being swung about like an inflatable penis at a GWAR concert?

Pytheus wrote:

There is the problem. You think god has a plan. Free will cannot be possible in a pre-determined future. Unless that future is determined by the individual, not god. You can't possibly agree with anything I'm saying if you don't believe in free will.


Love the word selection there, bub, belief. You'll probably be spending the next little bit being poked and prodded for evidence of said belief.
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Pytheus
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kame wrote:
How many pages until we'll find John Locke being swung about like an inflatable penis at a GWAR concert?


That would be interesting.
Quote:

Pytheus wrote:

There is the problem. You think god has a plan. Free will cannot be possible in a pre-determined future. Unless that future is determined by the individual, not god. You can't possibly agree with anything I'm saying if you don't believe in free will.


Love the word selection there, bub, belief. You'll probably be spending the next little bit being poked and prodded for evidence of said belief.
[/quote]

O well. I could ask for evidence that we don't have free will. Neither can be truly proven to each others satisfaction. I choose to believe I'm responsible for what happens in my life. He may choose to believe god or the devil is responsible for the good/bad things that happens. I think giving credit to anything other then yourself is an excuse.
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