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10 January 2008 - Gotta...
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Sojobo



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brain.Damage wrote:
Did you guys just start an argument over some fucking trees?

Yes.

Do you have anything else to add? Something clever? Something insightful? Something funny? Something passionate? Something entertaining? Something with any value or usefulness whatsoever?

Maybe you'd find it useful to post when you have something worthwhile to say instead of robotically obeying your OMGNEWCOMICTOPIC trigger.
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Forlorn Devil



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think those are trees in the last panel. I think they are shrubs!
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Yorick



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was about to note the shrubbery as well.

In other news, I long for those halcyon days of yore when arguments didn't invoke "strawman" as a rebuttal.
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filecore



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Secret wrote:
Or it could have appeared that you were hunting for some kind of overcomplicated symbolism that may not be there.


At the previously-demonstrated risk of my participating in a conversation on this forum (heaven forbid!), isn't that kind of the point of a forum discussing a comic? Otherwise, what else is there to post apart from "haha, that was good LOL"?
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Brain.Damage



Joined: 05 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sojobo wrote:
Brain.Damage wrote:
Did you guys just start an argument over some fucking trees?

Yes.

Do you have anything else to add? Something clever? Something insightful? Something funny? Something passionate? Something entertaining? Something with any value or usefulness whatsoever?

Maybe you'd find it useful to post when you have something worthwhile to say instead of robotically obeying your OMGNEWCOMICTOPIC trigger.


Ah, but what exactly is the value of an argument about trees? Do you take pleasure in stripping down the comics you say you enjoy until they are mere skeletons of their formers selves in a vain attempt to discern what the artist was going for?

I'm sure it never occurs to you that you're possibly reading far too deeply and that the trees really don't mean shit, or if they do, they are minor symbols that contribute little to the grand theme.

You and your kind are so incredibly full of shit... I'm amazed they even let you out in public.
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Martian Kyo



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's just 'that time of the month' for Sojobo.
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Fnorder
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My view:

#1 Different flora conveys mood: the trees in the first strip are lifeless and bring a sad feeling to the pre-ZenZap panels, while leafs and clouds being more curved and friendly, go well with Monique's feelings. Try editing the backgroud out and see how less intense the mood is.

#2 A Deeper Meaning: it is difficult to say for sure, due to the comic being B&W, but if we assume, that the ground in the first two panels is barren, and green in the last, this may symbolise new life. Which does make some sense, since the moment of satori (or realisation that one does have to mellow out) indeed marks a kind of spiritual re-birth. Those "shrubs" may actually be tree-tops, seen from over a hill (a grassy knoll as it seems)...

Both are possible. Both may be wrong.
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MerchManDan



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brain.Damage wrote:
Did you guys just start an argument over some fucking trees?


Not only that, but other people here are continuing that argument (or discussion; whichever one prefers) over some fucking trees.

I'm actually a bit impressed.
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Sojobo



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brain.Damage wrote:
Ah, but what exactly is the value of an argument about trees?

You twit. It has exactly the same value as any argument about any element of any artwork.

And if you would call all such argument valueless, then you are simply an aesthetic moron, and we are simply operating of sets of premises so distinct as to render communication impossible.

Brain.Damage wrote:
Do you take pleasure in stripping down the comics you say you enjoy until they are mere skeletons of their formers selves in a vain attempt to discern what the artist was going for?

This isn't what is happening, fuckwit. Nothing I am doing in any way weakens or harms or lessens the enjoyment I gain from the comic. There is no sense in which it is "stripped down" or has become a "skeleton." It's not my fault that you apparently lose your enjoyment of things when you think about them too hard.

Brain.Damage wrote:
I'm sure it never occurs to you that you're possibly reading far too deeply

I'm sure it never occurs to you that never thinking about art means you're appreciating it on much too shallow a level.

Brain.Damage wrote:
and that the trees really don't mean shit, or if they do, they are minor symbols that contribute little to the grand theme.

When did I say they weren't minor? What the fuck is wrong with you? Why are you imagining some grand significance to my curiousity about an element in a comic strip?

Brain.Damage wrote:
You and your kind are so incredibly full of shit... I'm amazed they even let you out in public.

You'll notice many people here have the same kind of conversations I am having. This is where we congregate. And we don't like you. Why the fuck would you spend time here amongst people who you don't understand and don't like, and who think your posts are pointless garbage? Go plague someone else.
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Sojobo



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fnorder wrote:
Different flora conveys mood:

agreed.

Fnorder wrote:
the trees in the first strip are lifeless and bring a sad feeling to the pre-ZenZap panels,

I don't think they're sad, as much as still or quiet. In my first post I suggested "austere."

Fnorder wrote:
while leafs and clouds being more curved and friendly, go well with Monique's feelings.

agreed.

Fnorder wrote:
it is difficult to say for sure, due to the comic being B&W, but if we assume, that the ground in the first two panels is barren, and green in the last, this may symbolise new life. Which does make some sense, since the moment of satori (or realisation that one does have to mellow out) indeed marks a kind of spiritual re-birth.

A kind of spiritual re-birth, sure, but not one characterized by a conversion from barrenness to new life. Her epiphany alters her from frantic to mellow, or, alternately phrased, her mindset shifts from must-get-things-done to let-things-happen. I don't think there was anything about the first background that enhanced the frantic.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, the discussion did bring my attention to something i hadn't really noticed before...which is one value of discussion.

in the first two panels, it's clearly a cold winter day - note that monique is bundled up and her breath is steaming - all of which goes along with the bare winter trees.

in the last panel, it's like spring has arrived - while she still has the heavy clothes, her breath is no longer steaming - and the landscape does have a 'green' feeling.

i don't know about satori, but spring is definitely a time of rebirth. winter, of course, is not necessarily frantic (once you get past christmas shopping season) - so the background may be no more than acknowledging that it is, in fact, january.

or you could characterize the weather as 'brisk'.
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Sojobo



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
or you could characterize the weather as 'brisk'.

Very Happy

[edit]
Actually, that is so sublimely perfect, it pretty much has to have been intentional.
Well done, Tat. Sorry to have doubted you.
[/edit]
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led_scorched



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to second the "they look like shrubs" angle.

If you ask me, it looks like the same place, different perspective. Maybe I'm looking at it too simply. *shrug*
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

led_scorched wrote:
I'm going to second the "they look like shrubs" angle.

If you ask me, it looks like the same place, different perspective. Maybe I'm looking at it too simply. *shrug*


I think this is the essence of what Buddha did to/for her.
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Fnorder
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sojobo wrote:
A kind of spiritual re-birth, sure, but not one characterized by a conversion from barrenness to new life. Her epiphany alters her from frantic to mellow, or, alternately phrased, her mindset shifts from must-get-things-done to let-things-happen. I don't think there was anything about the first background that enhanced the frantic.


Ah, but still we have to remember we're talking Buddha here. A life of "must-get-things-done" in such view would be the life of coveting, striving to comply to the standards, and both internal and external pressure. As such it will be full of suffering, and therefore barren. The second stage, zen stage if I may, is not exactly "let things happen" but acknowledging that "things happen", and does bring new quality to life - enables you to enjoy it, every part of it. One is truly living, as he reaches harmony.

Also we have a yin-yang here. Mionique seems to be heavy on Yin in the sense of general feelings, but with a touch of Yang activity and energy. After the shift, she gains a full Yang insight, but drops to a more Yin attitude towards action, which might be seen as a more desirable combination.

Or it might be just the weather. I like your version very much mouse Smile It seems the most zen-ified.

Edit: That's a great point Darqcyde!
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