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This man is the scum of the earth.
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trustedfaith



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3366
Location: My own little world...

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lily wrote:
how about telling men to stop rape, instead of telling women to stay at home?

i honestly hear a hell of a lot more 'damn, women need to take responsibility and not get wasted' than i do 'damn, men need to stop raping women'. which is completely backwards.

i think the issue is that people feel like rapists are 'the other', that they're dark shady men who aren't going to listen if we tell them not to rape. the truth is that rapists are ordinary men, and you probably know a couple. i believe in working towards a culture in which men stop taking advantage of women rather than one in which women live in fear.

info sheet on things men can do to stop rape


Ideally that would be nice, if that worked. To be able to to just say "Stop raping women, so we don't have to change our lives, to protect ourselves from you." But the truth is, that really isn't going to work.

I would suggest here that schools try to teach some respect between the female and male population. But they should be doing that anyway.

So because you can't just say "Stop it," it is still important for the female to be safe, and thus take the sacrifice of avoiding obvious situations that could put her in danger of it happenening.

You could say that about anything really, "Stop killing people" and we wouldn't have to worry about murder anymore. People wouldn't have to worry about going into areas where the murder counts are high and dangerous. But that's just not the world we live in. Unfortunately.
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andrew



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 4495
Location: the raging sea

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lily wrote:
how about telling men to stop rape, instead of telling women to stay at home?

i honestly hear a hell of a lot more 'damn, women need to take responsibility and not get wasted' than i do 'damn, men need to stop raping women'. which is completely backwards.

i think the issue is that people feel like rapists are 'the other', that they're dark shady men who aren't going to listen if we tell them not to rape. the truth is that rapists are ordinary men, and you probably know a couple. i believe in working towards a culture in which men stop taking advantage of women rather than one in which women live in fear.

info sheet on things men can do to stop rape


I hear at least as much promotion of "rape awareness for men" (e.g. what constitutes sexual harassment and rape) as I do promotion of "rape awareness for women" (e.g. how to stay out of situations that increases your odds of being raped).

This doesn't make sense to me. The "rape awareness for women" category should be promoted much, much more loudly than the male counterpart, because teaching women how to recognize/avoid bad situations and deal with the ones they can't avoid puts a greater measure of control in the hands of the victimized.

We should not be ignoring the men who perpetrate the crimes, especially since many rapists do not recognize themselves as such. But to suggest that we need more effort on the "stop men from raping" front than the "teach women how to protect themselves" front is, at best, comically idealistic.
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lily



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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Location: worcester, ma

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i am a firm believer in teaching women to protect themselves and to recognize bad situations. but that's completely different from telling them not to go out drinking with their friends.
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kame



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 2565
Location: Alba Nuadh

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lily wrote:
my issue is not with whether you choose to appreciate the artistic efforts of rapists. my issue is calling rape a 'strange proclivity'.

i am curious as to your moral differentiation between bryant, polanski and kelly. my guess is that you believe bryant to be falsely accused and kelly to be guilty only of statutory rape. am i right?


I don't know, I shouldn't have made the divide in the first place. I've been struggling for an hour trying to figure out a way to do it. I can't for the life of me because the definition of a minor varies a lot from country to country, and I don't know which one is right. I guess the problem I have is arbitrarily defining when someone reaches sexual maturity, or posseses the faculties to make a decision concerning sex. I don't know, I feel dirty just talking about it.
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trustedfaith



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3366
Location: My own little world...

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not getting shitfaced helps a lot more than just avoiding getting raped. It avoids drunk driving, it avoids physical confronation (as lots of fights start with two intoxicated individuals), it prevents alcohol poisoning, etc.

So paying attention to how much you drink, and who you drink with is a good thing all around. Not just for your safety around strangers, but other things as well.

Responsible drinking is always a good thing. And should be promoted.
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